How best to eliminate LP warps


I own about 2500 LPs, and I like to think they're flat.  Furthermore, I espoused the view that warped LPs ought to be discarded.  But lately I have found 2 or 3 of my LPs that do have warps but sound too good and are too precious for the music recorded on them to throw away.  So I am in the market for ideas on how to remove warps.  I am aware that there was a device on the market that looked like a large waffle maker, to be used for warp removal.  I think Furutech made it, but I never see it advertised these days.  I am also aware of the DIY method of placing an LP between two glass plates and heating the ensemble.  The question there would be how hot and for how long?  Any suggestions are welcome, especially opinions on the efficacy of the Furutech.  Thanks.  Please no comments on vacuum hold down; I think it's a great idea but none of my five turntables has that feature.

lewm

At no time have I made it seem like it is going to be a common discovery to encounter a TT, that has a Platter Spindle housed with Interface materials that are showing excessive signs of wear and the most likely cause being, the interface parts are doing, 'as said on the tin' and having a service life associated with being sacrificial and expected to yield in their soundness by design.

The fact is that it does occur, an interest in the subject can easily show cases where discoveries have been made.  I have hands on experience of these unwanted conditions having occurred and through discussions with others face to face and through using a forum as communication channel, knowledge becomes available of unwanted conditions that have been discovered within a TT's Platter Spindle Bearing Housing.

I have no beef with anybody who does not care for the subject, but as there are many who visit forums, and somehow end up with a desire to buy into a Vintage TT, it is no harm in informing them of a condition that they might inherit as part of their purchase. It is for these reasons only that I keep the subject live.

I have been instrumental without making any profit, in helping some Vintage TT owners acquire a necessary part to overcome a condition that has been wanted to be remediated. The conditions have not been fantastical as seems to be suggested by a few members on here recently, but quite real and enough of a concern for the TT owners to seek guidance to correct the condition.  

A Individual who is buying TT that has been a model available in the used market for a very long time and especially the Vintage Period, can be supplied a TT that has a condition in a Bearing Housing that might need a rethink and corrective measures used to make an improvement. It is best to identify with this being a Possibility prior to going down the rabbit hole, not all users of TT's are settled with the idea of carrying out surgery on them, the very idea, might make them feel quite queasy. 

I know a individual who has a well respected Japanese Vintage TT, one that quite a few would aspire to own. This individual has been quite proud of their TT and had made it known on a few occasions, how they would be happy to have it used in a Line Up at a Bake Off.

This same individual when stumbling on a discussion about Bearing Condition on another forum, was to become a vehement adversary to the notion their TT could be in need of a overhaul of the Bearing.

At a later date a Off Board Key Strobe was used and a discovery was made that encouraged the individual to suspect something was amiss. The investigation lead to the Bearing Assembly, and the result of the investigation was such that the Bushes were showing signs of excess wear and the Interference fit Ball was with a  scribed surface.

This individual was aware of the work was having done on a identical model TT, and inquired if they could queue Jump, as they were not wanting to use their TT, in the condition it would be in if reassembled using the Vintage OEM Parts.

I agreed to let the other TT have the work carried out in advance of my own one.

The Engineer tied up and the work run on longer than planned, the TT owner waiting for their bearing parts to be produced, bought in another identical model TT, to use as a stop gap. The having the possession of two TT's got their thoughts going and two identical Plinths were produced from the materials of choice.

The Identical Plinths and Same Model TT's was now in a position where both versions could be A/B compared using the same Tonearm and Sub Plinth Structure.

The outcome of the A/B testing was quite a revelation, the Original Parts TT, did not survive the whole of the selected tracks to be used during the comparisons.

The TT with the Bearing Parts using a modern approach and modern materials was the much preferred, they claimed it was like two different TT's.

The Vehement Adversary to the notion, was now making appraisals for the changes that were not present prior to the first experience of the new design bearing assembly.

There are now in place other additional methods that have been adopted for use by this individual, they are convinced that looking after the bearing assembly and housing are key to creating a valuable improvement. There is now a method produced to rigidly fasten the Bearing Housing. The curiosity has not stopped there, there is also one of the TT's with a Lignum Vitae Bush and Thrust Pad produced, that is yet to be A/B demonstrated between the two modified TT's.         

A Worn Thrust Pad is the most likely to be expected, many that are inspected for wear will usually show some form of indentation.

It is quite common to see a Thrust Pad that is interfaced with an interference fit ball in the base of the spindle, to have shown an ellipse shape as the wear seen formed at the indentation on the Thrust Pad. This condition serves as an indicator, and suggests the Spindle Rotates of Axis.

Another condition reported on, is a flattening of a Steel Ball and another much more unwanted condition, being a scribing on the surface of the Steel Ball, I have been shown these conditions first hand and have seen it presented as an item needing to be corrected on other forums. It has also been a subject shown by a respected service engineer, who is referred to on this forum regularly. This is not a fantastical idea, it is real and it occurs.

The Bushes are probably the hardest item to think of as showing a Wear, but again they do. When the condition is present, an eccentric rotation is most likely to occur, the longer the period of rotations, the longer the exposure to operating conditions that can increase the wear, resulting in increased Bush Wear and an increased eccentric rotation. I have had my fingers on Spindles that have been able to produce a Tapping Noise when gentle finger pressure is applied. I know of others who have been able to produce a Tapping noise as well, using similar lightly applied finger pressure. It is not a fantastical idea, it occurs. 

I like to think that when a individual has a TT in use with an unknown usage history, they are fully confident about the condition of the TT's Bearing Assembly and that is is functioning to a standard that is mechanically sound.

The idea of a very expensive Stylus interfacing with an LP Groove that is most likely eccentric in rotation due the pressing of the LP, and then this being amplified further by the Off Axis rotation of the Spindle, is a condition I wish to avoid.

I have taken a few steps to overcome across many years, and have had Bearings Overhauled by a Specialist Service, or alternatively Supplied as a New Design to be used on a Vintage TT. 

As always 'each to their own'.

If there are individuals not wanting to concern themselves with the the possibility for mechanical issue being present, that may be a concern, within the assembly of the Bearing Housing, that is fine. At no time have I made it seem the enjoyment of music is not to be had on any condition of a Bearing Assemblies Parts.

Alternatively there might be an individual who is aware of something that is a concern to them, then stumbling on these types of post's might be enough to motivate them to learn more, there can be no harm in that happening.    

Then there are the types that like to think the Bearing Assembly is able to be  brought up to a very high specification and has exchange materials in use that are modern and fit for the purpose of the role they are selected for, I'm sure those types really enjoy stumbling on Post's that cover the subject of carrying out such work.   

 

@mijostyn 

Further to our conversation, I left the record clamped on the platter. That was an hour and a half ago. It's now virtually flat - the same position that was 0.195" up above the platter is now a few thousands up. That's about 100x reduction in dishing.

@terry9 , now try turning the record over.

@pindac , I really wish I had some of whatever it is you are smoking. I wish I had that kind of ...energy.

Tea Total is the Key, no fantastical stuff, followed by just a pure curiosity to learn a little about the what would be the best for the Vinyl Source.

For me it lead to the best environment that a Stylus can be functioning in.

In a very layman description, Vinyl Condition and Cleanliness/Purification within the Groove, Operational Energies Transferred to the Styli, Energies Transferred from the Styli.

I am fortunate to be able to have a support form very adept individuals, who are known for being able to produce methods or carry out work that reduces the effects of the above.

To receive a demonstration of a Vintage TT, with a modified bearing housing, using Modern Materials machined to be a best fit and have a lubrication that is hydrodynamic, is something when encountered is quite indelible, it is as memorable as the song 'Summertime', and has a similar impact, as once heard, one is happy to hear more. 

I have a friend who took these ideas, to a further level and had a Spindle Produced that has a Steel section within the Bearing Housing and a option to use a Variety of Materials that are in contact with the Platter, there material of choice when I was demonstrated this design was Ebony. 

My interest in the subject is no different to a savvy Modern Turntable Producer, they are looking at the similar materials and choosing these to work with their own dimensional tolerances for the materials to interface, this will then allow for their selection of lubrication that best suits those chosen materials and selected dimension tolerances.   

On the subject of a Warp, I have tried out a AT-666 Vacuum Mat and was not satisfied with the sonic trait and how it was perceived as influencing the SQ during the replay.

I do intend on owning a AT-666 and trying it with different materials under it and upon it the LP, to see if the sonic trait can be altered to one that is being perceived as more to my preference. As usual these outcomes are all subjective, and the usual undertaking of later arranged group demonstration, along with the variety of  listening sensitivities that comes with a mixed group,  could easily produce a host of mixed assessments, that are the antithesis of ones own. 

Not being Selfish, the final choice, does belong to the end user, but sometimes the comments made from others, does help with pinpointing traits that one may have been overlooking during their own evaluations.