So I bought the Willsenton R-800i


After I bought the Klipsch Cornwall IVs recently it became apparent quite quickly that to make it really shine it needs a tube amp to drive it. (For me at least.) After doing some (=endless) research, considering the options (budget, shops nearby carrying models I´m interested in, etc.) and also asking around on this very forum I decided to go for the Willsenton R-800i. None of my friends here shares my excitement for audio stuff or even has a comparable system, so what´s now in my living room is the one tube amp I know. And I´m delighted. Together with the speakers it gives the music the presence and glow that I so desired.

Of course I can tell that there´s more potential in this amp and I already exchanged some of the stock tubes. There are more on the way and I can´t wait to test them. For now my financial means are a bit limited so I´m not ordering Western Electric and Takatsuki 300Bs just for the sake of comparing them. In fact I´m waiting with those a bit and go for the others first.

Searching online I find a lot of information on English language forums. Somehow tube rolling is not discussed as much on the German forums I checked though – and out of curiosity (and because they were pretty cheap) I went for both West- and East-German ECC83s and a fairly random mix of other tubes from the US and the Soviet Union. I´m waiting for them to arrive and not being able to read about some of them it raises my curiosity how they will sound. Maybe crappy, maybe not so bad, maybe even very good. I´ll see. Tube rolling will take some time and I don´t mind. The amp is there to stay for quite a while.

There´s an exhaustive thread on the Willsenton amps and fitting tubes here but since I found people´s comments on this forum so helpful I´m looking forward to hear from you. I´m open for tube recommendations and would like to hear anyone´s experience with the Willsenton R-800i. Or maybe someone has questions?

As for the tubes:

805 – stock replaced for Cossor
300B – stock
6SN7 – stock replaced for Sylvania GTBs, waiting for Fonon NOS (Soviet, 1979, a bargain for 10€)
12AX7 – stock replaced with current Mullard model, waiting for West German ones from AEG and Telefunken, East German ones from RSD and Funkwerk Erfurt (both used) and also Sylvania JAN 5751 NOS (a military model)
5U4G – stock, waiting for RCA NOS black plate and Svetlana NOS „Coke Bottle“

chmaiwald

A short update here:

I have tested a few tubes and maybe you´d like to hear.

805 – stock replaced for Cossor
Judging from how they look the stock ones seem to be rebranded PSVane Hifi 805s. After listening to the Cossors for a few weeks I now put the stock tubes back in and I´m surprised that they also sound very good. Maybe a bit too boomy on the low end and with less stage, but tbh I still have to break them in properly, so for now they stay in.

6SN7 – stock replaced for Sylvania GTBs, waiting for Fonon NOS
One of the Fonons was broken. So I´m using the Sylvanias atm. Ordered some RCA NOS and of course I´m tempted to buy and test others but I´m holding back for now. It´s just costly and the Sylvanias are doing a great job. There´s the 300Bs and, probably, the 805s to be taken care of so I´m not trying to get carried away here.

12AX7 – stock replaced with current Mullard model, waiting for West German ones from AEG and Telefunken, East German ones from RSD and Funkwerk Erfurt (both used) and also Sylvania JAN 5751 NOS (a military model)
Still waiting for the west german ones. The stock one was JJ and just like the Sylvania and to a lesser extend the RSD it did a nice job. But the Mullard stands out for me in overall performance: Detailed highs and lows, lovely stage and nicely pronounced mids. Would like to hear NOS Mullards without having to buy them.

5U4G – stock, waiting for RCA NOS black plate and Svetlana NOS „Coke Bottle“
Currently the Svetlana is in and the overall sound seems a bit more transparent. But really, just a bit. Maybe I´m entering the world of audio voodoo because I want to hear a difference. But they also look better. Having read that 5U4Gs shouldn´t have much of an effect on the sound (if at all) I feel no need to look any further here. What a relief!

A few things I learned in the last weeks:

So many people write about audio with a presumed authority but considering their experience, their ears and taste on one side and ones own system, room, taste, ears and financial means on the other there is only so much you can take from it. You have to go your own way. And it´s ok not to end up with a system filled with Telefunkens with diamond bases, other NOS-tubes from that one specific year and whatnot. (By saying this I´m also reminding myself of it.) It´s also the structure of forums like this with people exchanging views about what´s better or not that implies you always have to hunt for the best.

Also, having a system now with much better resolution I also get to hear some mistakes or imperfections that were not so prominent before. Take „Roads“ by Portishead for example, a devastatingly beautiful song. It starts with a great organ intro that immediately pulls you in (down, some would say). Unlike before I now hear that on CD there´s some overdrive on the right chanel there. A few times the sound distorts. It´s bugging me like hell! I checked on spotify – the same. So maybe it´s everywhere and no mastering error. Still, it´s the first time I feel the strong bite of the sudiophile bug that wants to divert my attention from the song (which is still amazing) to the recording. Luckily he doesnt bite that often and I can still focus more on the overall improvement of the playback and a deeper connection to the music I listen to.

Lastly, for now, a question:
How much were tubes back in the day? They were so common but still needed skill and precision in production. It´s hard to imagine how much 12AX7s or 300Bs or 6SN7s used to cost when they were widely available. Does anyone know more or less? And I keep hearing that prices went up a lot in the last years for NOS. How much?

In order of importance to sound quality I'd rate 805 first, rectifier, than 300B. The Cossor is produced by Psvane, wouldn't expect much change from stock Psvane, Mullard NOS rectifier is one nice tube, use them in my custom 300B's, much greater reliability and longevity compared to modern, 300B, any number of top tier would be nice.

 

Assuming that amp up to it, top tier tubes will be impressive upgrade from present tubes. Crazy, but I could easily spend $2500 up on those three tube sets alone, even more crazy, it would be worth it.

 

I don't know what tubes cost back in day, assume pennies on the dollar, even accounting for inflation. NOS always going up, increasingly limited supply, likely greater demand over time, add inflation, prices up to be expected.

Assuming that amp up to it, top tier tubes will be impressive upgrade from present tubes. Crazy, but I could easily spend $2500 up on those three tube sets alone, even more crazy, it would be worth it.

Agree 100%. If it is a good quality SET build, then the upper tier DHT tubes will exploit its full sonic potential.

Charles

A quick update:

After testing quite a few 12AX7s I must say: Believe the hype. The Telefunken (ECC83) is the best. Not by far, but overall it does its job extremely well. Second would be the Mullard (current production).

At the moment I´m running old soviet 6SN7 NOSs and really, between them and Sylvania GTB NOSs I´d find it hard to decide. I bought them here for a mere 15€ and I´d be happy to hear what others think about them. I didn´t try too many others, just the stock ones and RCA GTA NOSs, which both just didn´t compare. I heard good things about the bass performance of the PSVane Treasure MkII, if I ever spot a bargain I may be tempted to try these.

5U4G – Svetlana.

805 & 300B – I´m saving for replacments. I didn´t find much info about different 805s so I may go for PSVane Acmes. As for 300Bs the one thing most people seem to agree on is that between cheaper/mid-priced and the more costly tubes it makes most sense to just go for the expensive ones. No secrets here it seems. So the question is which exact model and I´m still not sure. WE (new production), Takatsuki or Elrog? Well, well... I´m favouring the Elrog, maybe just because I tend to support the underdogs. And after some production hiccups some years ago the current tubes seem to be reliable and they give a 1 year warranty too. (When it comes to this the 5 year warranty given by WE is a very good argument as well.) Did anyone have a chance to compare Elrogs with other 300Bs?

Aside from all the tube talk I must say that I´m still very happy with the amp and the prospect of improving the sound even further is thrilling to say the least. I listend to records by Matthew Halsall and 700 bliss today and was very pleased with how well they both sounded even though they are sonically pretty different. Overall I still could do with a wee bit less treble but that´s nitpicking, really.

@chmaiwald 

Thanks  for taking the time to provide an update. I’m happy that this amplifier purchase has worked out so well for you. With the 805/300b combo circuit, this will provide beautiful music reproduction for many years of enjoyment.

Charles