This is a great thread. I'm also working on my room with my KEF LS50 Metas combined with a KEF KC62. I have a 15x17ft room with a 9ft ceiling. The challenge is the left side of my loft opens up to a stairwell so overall the room width is technically 23' wide but the half height pony wall limits the speaker placement width to 15'. I'm still playing with the placement but currently the front of the speaker are 35" from the back wall. Still more experimenting to come. My wife always ask me about the blue tape on the floor :)
Speaker positioning and center image depth
I’ve been in so many conversations with people who boast of the depth of the soundstage from a particular pair of speakers to fall well behind said speakers, and others who claim the sound is very much more forward for some speakers. For me, I’ve found that most times, it just depends on how the speakers are positioned in the room.
I find a combination of just slightly too much toe in and just not enough distance between speakers in relation to the listener create a more powerful and forward center image and potentially a narrower soundstage as the speakers end up not taking advantage of the side walls. On the other hand, having the speakers toed out too little at a larger distance from each other results in a more distant center image and at times loses clarity.
Distance from the walls also makes a huge difference here, as well as how well the room is treated. And there are many variables that will change the way a speaker projects the sound.
Of course, many speakers do a better job of imaging a particular way over others, but I’m not convinced of generalizations made about these projections (how forward vs deep a speaker sounds) in reviews or forum threads. For me, it usually has much to do with how it’s set up in the room.
That said, I do believe some speakers play incredibly large, and others small such that the thresholds (toe in, distances, etc) are all variable, which help a speaker work in some rooms better than others. And of course every speaker imparts it’s own sonic character, some more open and transparent and others more recessed and warm, etc.
I’m curious as to other peoples’ reactions and experiences with regards to speaker depth/forwardness, and if they agree with what I’m finding or if they believe the speaker has a much larger role than the room the way I am describing. I’m always looking to learn more.
- ...
- 76 posts total
As a long time professional musician and live sound engineer I’m nothing if not meticulous about the tonal aspects of my system, including soundstaging, bass response and any other speaker placement issues. The main listening room treatment is accomplished by having furniture, rugs, book cases, a couple of plants, an 18’ ceiling, a gigantic stone fireplace along a wall, euro style tall windows, a loft, my hair, a 50’s Les Paul Standard in a corner, a small model of the Les Paul on a table because I’m cheezy, etc. Heresy IIIs and 2 REL subs (vintage at this point but carefully adjusted). What does it sound like? I recently added a Pas XA-25 so I’m still astonished by that thing, but what I can say is it’s indescribable. I recently changed the toe-in angle to widen the soundstage a little. I’m meticulous. To achieve this level of sonic wonderfulness you just have to exactly replicate all of my stuff and borrow my ears. That's not going to be easy. |
@sns Agree, especially when considering a tried and true design like the Cornwalls which are meant to be positioned in the corners. When you say meticulous attention, it sure does vary by speaker. Some speakers have incredibly small sweet spots, but getting them right pays off handsomely, and other speakers may have larger sweet spots, but they compromise overall dimensionality. And then there are the speakers that can have a large sweet spot and image very holographically, and those are very special. |
First, respect to you and your experience. I have benefited from many of your comments and you’ve posted helpful advice to questions I’ve asked, as well. Regarding your comment, here, well, all I can say is that there are others with similar levels of experience as yours who do measure, tinker, adjust, and treat rooms. It would seem they're all wasting their time. |
- 76 posts total