Speaker positioning and center image depth
I’ve been in so many conversations with people who boast of the depth of the soundstage from a particular pair of speakers to fall well behind said speakers, and others who claim the sound is very much more forward for some speakers. For me, I’ve found that most times, it just depends on how the speakers are positioned in the room.
I find a combination of just slightly too much toe in and just not enough distance between speakers in relation to the listener create a more powerful and forward center image and potentially a narrower soundstage as the speakers end up not taking advantage of the side walls. On the other hand, having the speakers toed out too little at a larger distance from each other results in a more distant center image and at times loses clarity.
Distance from the walls also makes a huge difference here, as well as how well the room is treated. And there are many variables that will change the way a speaker projects the sound.
Of course, many speakers do a better job of imaging a particular way over others, but I’m not convinced of generalizations made about these projections (how forward vs deep a speaker sounds) in reviews or forum threads. For me, it usually has much to do with how it’s set up in the room.
That said, I do believe some speakers play incredibly large, and others small such that the thresholds (toe in, distances, etc) are all variable, which help a speaker work in some rooms better than others. And of course every speaker imparts it’s own sonic character, some more open and transparent and others more recessed and warm, etc.
I’m curious as to other peoples’ reactions and experiences with regards to speaker depth/forwardness, and if they agree with what I’m finding or if they believe the speaker has a much larger role than the room the way I am describing. I’m always looking to learn more.
First, respect to you and your experience. I have benefited from many of your comments and you’ve posted helpful advice to questions I’ve asked, as well. Regarding your comment, here, well, all I can say is that there are others with similar levels of experience as yours who do measure, tinker, adjust, and treat rooms. It would seem they're all wasting their time. |
@blisshifi, my impression is that soundstage depth can either be dominated by the room or by the recording, the latter being preferable but generally more difficult to accomplish. First looking at the room as the constraining factor: As a ballpark first approximation, it seems to me that soundstage depth is related to the distance from the speakers to the wall (or equipment rack, or TV, or whatever) that is behind and/or in between them. My untested observation is that soundstage depth often seems constrained to twice the distance to the reflective surface between and behind the speakers. So if the speakers are out three feet from the wall, it seems to me that soundstage depth tends to extend to about six feet - which is cool because it is perceived as extending beyond the physical room boundaries, but imo there is significant room for improvement. Diffusing, re-directing, or broadband-absorbing the first reflections off the wall behind the speakers (and avoiding having the equipment rack or TV there) can help to "unmask" the soundstage depth cues which are already on the recording. Also, well set-up (i.e. far enough out into the room) bi-directional speakers like the Borresens/Raidhos, Quads, and Maggies you mentioned, have reflection characteristics which can be exploited to shift the perceived acoustic space from "playback room" to "recording venue", whether the recording venue cues be real or engineered or both. Duke
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@audiokinesis Your post is thoughtful, and I appreciate that you have not (yet) redirected the conversation in any way to focus on how the role of subs can manipulate the stage (for better or worse), yet of course that is a whole other direction for discussion. I for one would certainly enjoy learning about tested observations / white paper between speaker depth and stage depth, but I agree largely with what you say, as long as a speaker can actually image well. And for sure, managing the reflections and reverberations are as important as the positioning itself. @mijostyn Both great points, self-awareness and humility go a long way here.
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