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Magico V3 with tubed amplification, will it work ?

Hello There,
I'm planning to upgrade my old Thiel 3.6 speakers.

I was considering Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversary, really liked then, divine soundstage, great transparency. But I have heard Magico Mini on some audio show, I have never heard anything like this, they sounded different then anything else, so involving, truthful, I was captivated literally... For me they bettered all speaker I have heard so far. (I know that they do not have slam of Wilson speakers). But price $20.000 for mini monitors, that is insane.
But, now I have noticed that V3 can be bought for $12.000, which is about as much I could afford. And V3 will have better dynamics and more bass which is all I would need.
I have talked with former Magico dealer and he told me that Magico will not work with 100W tube amplifier (Supratek Burgundy) or Clayton M100 (class A 100W) which I own.
He basically told me that I need strong 300W of solid state power from Spectral, ML, Krell, Ayre to make them sing. With 100W he claimed they will sound dull uninvolving.
I do not want to change amps so I’m in quandary. He was trying to convince me that Wilson Sasha is better choice and they are easy to drive and 100W will do just fine.
I’m not sure if this is genuine advice or just dealer talk, he is selling Wilson Audio now.
How can Sasha be easy load if it drops to 1.8ohm ? I’m not convinced, so I'm looking for second opinion. I heard on numerous occasions WATT/Puppy in shortcut huge soundstage big bass, but was never captivated by music the way I was with Magico. Hence my question:
Have anybody been using V3 with tube amplification ? Can Magico be successfully driven by 100W tube amp ?
sorlowski
babybear's avatar
babybear
106 posts
 
Hi,

Some of what the former Magico dealer told you is correct. I used to own Magico M5 speakers (harder to drive than the V3) and I have done several listening sessions with the Magico V3. Based on my experience with Magico, I would tend to agree that a 100 watt per channel amplifier will in general, not be enough power to bring the V3 to life and let you hear what it is capable of sounding like. I have no experience with the Clayton amp that you have so I can't comment on it and the V3 specifically and of course, some of this depends on your room (size, acoustic treatment of the room) and how loud you want to play them.

But, you don't need to drive them only with more powerful solid state amps - tube amps will work wonderfully, assuming you have enough power. Again, depending on your room and listening habits - the ARC Ref 210 should work fine with the V3, and I know for sure that VTL 450's will sound great with them. I am sure there are others (maybe even your Clayton amp), these are just a few suggestions.

I would say that the WIlson Sasha might be a little easier to drive than the V3, but again, depending on your room and listening habits, 100 watts per channel may not be enough to really let them shine as well (again depending on room and listening habits).
ricred1
2,058 posts
 
I drive my Sasha's with Densen B-350 mono-amps(125 watts)in a 20'x 26' room with no problems. That being said, everyone has different taste and Sasha's may not be your cup of tea! Try to find a way to listen to the Magico's with your amps.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,407 posts
 
I envision Magico to perform similarly off tube amps as Thiel, ie yes it will work and have some nice attributes, but low end may not be as convincing as with good high current SS gear.

I have heard Magico Minis of beefy VAC tube amp sound very nice but in line with my assessment above. Have not heard V3 but dealer seemed to prefer Minis with that system. I suspect largely because V3s go deeper and fuller and tube amp is not the best match.

I've heard V3 at show demos sound very nice with full bottom end similar to YG Anat off of good quality high current SS amplification.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,931 posts
 
The problem you are dealing with is that the speaker is inefficient. They rate the 'sensitivity' at 89 db, which is at best moderate, but when you do the math (its a 4 ohm load, sensitivity is 2.83 volts into 4 ohms) what you see is the efficiency is only 86 db!

In most rooms that is a need for a lot of power! In my room I would need 400 watts at a *minimum*. My room is 17' x 21'.

If I were you I would look at a more efficient speaker if you want to use tubes. The Sasha that you mentioned is an example- 100 watt tube amps drive it quite well despite its low impedance at 80Hz. Another speaker to consider that is in the same performance arena is the Dreammaker by Audiokinesis.
bvdiman
491 posts
 
I had the Mini2, and later V3 (ar.4yrs in total with both). Cut story short, my brother ultimately loved how V3s sounded in my room driven alternately by FMA (250w) or Soulution (110w @8ohms) that he decided to take it off me. Even though his room is actually on the smallish side (ar.12'x15'), his amp then an ARC REF110 simply refused to 'wake' those V3s up - somehow sounded restrained. Later a change to REF150 improved things quite a bit, but he reckoned still not there yet.

Finally, after more in-room toying/comparing (-+3months), he ended up trading in my old pair of V3s for the dealer's brand new loaner pair of Sasha+REF150. In his simple words, he thought the pairing to be - 'more alive, more exciting'. I agree.. that that particular amp+speaker combo in synergy with his other ancillaries, in his room, playing his music, happen to do just that.

The Mini2s/V3s are undoubtedly some great speakers, even more so considering their current used prices. However, I suggest you do an in-home audition with your current amp (if no intention to change), prior to any commitment. IMO/E, in a moderate size room, you DO need at least a good 200-300w of tube power, OR--alternatively, some capable high current/quality SS amps to unleash their true/otherwise hidden potential.
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