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Indentical measurments = Identical performance?

I’ve been doing A LOT of thinking lately. In particular, about the importance of audio measurments for source components like DACs and CD players.

 

Let us first assume that we have 2 identical DACs or 2 identical CD players. You wouldn’t dare suggest that the same models sound inherently different, now would you? Well we can prove that the output of each device in this scenario is identical by doing a null test. We capature the output of the DACs and CD players and learn that their waveforms (let’s say a 30 second clip) are identical. The only time we might see a difference is in an engineering/manufacturing hiccup...and that is RARE considering we have globalization in the modern world today followed by quality control standards that are not necessarily difficult to get right.

 

And so, if put to practice, any 2 digital audio components that have similar enough measurements should sound identical. For example, a DAC with a SINAD or SNR or 120 dB vs one with a SINAD or SNR of 123. Tiny differences in linarity and frequency response above 20 KHz are not audible to us humans anyway.

Because most of our listening dare not go up to 110 dB, which is the threshold of discomfort. You could only listen for up to about 30 minutes at this level without risking hearing loss! For this reason, the ideal listening level is below that!

 

Should we forget about what companies try to sell us as high-end and focus purely on measurements with respect to accurately reproducing digital audio?

 

Here’s what’s really funny. The Chord DAVE performed worse with respect to measurments than the Chord Hugo TT2! Just see audio science review.

 

Lastly, I consider ASR the best objective website on the internet, bar none. Because if Amir really had a business relationship with any of these audio companies, their flagship or most expensive products would always perform at the very top; we see that is not the case and measured performance is all over the place!

 

Looking forward to hearing from you guys. Let’s not turn this discussion into a flame war. If you disagree with what I’ve written, just tell me why. I will investigate.

 

 

jackhifiguy
czarivey
5,691 posts
 

Dude 2 different DACS and CD players can sound same depending on listener so go figure.

fuzztone's avatar
fuzztone
5,501 posts
 

Measurements might or might not point us to what sounds best. 

Inconclusive.

onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,139 posts
 

Measurements are measurements and enjoying listening to reproduced music is something else.  There is overlap and each is useful, but each is also overrated.  Keep on doing some serious thinking about it and keep us informed.

erik_squires
15,691 posts
 

If measurments are not science but only a standard for determining quality assurance, shouldn't that mean the Chinese audio gear that measures leaps and bounds ahead of other well-known brand is "better quality?"

OP:

Not what I meant to say at all.  I meant to say that the process of measurement alone is not enough to call something "science." Measuring and comparing to other measurements, alone, is not science.  Science grows by research and investigation.  All of the measurements in Stereophile are not, by themselves, science.  We can say that the measurements are artifact of prior science.  I think the process is closer to quality assurance than science.

If I take my multi-meter and stick it in my wall, it it science?  No, it's testing based on established norms (110 Volts to 129 Volts is good).  That's what I mean by quality assurance.  It is a rote task based on well established standards and repetition. 

Clearly, my multimeter, and the delivery of alternating current to my home is the result of many scientific activities which have ultimately resulted in a set of products and practices which ultimately end in an outlet in my wall, and a multimeter with an LCD display telling me the voltage, but am I performing science?  I don't really think so.  The same thing is true for using old audio measurements. 

We should also be careful in using "quality" here.  When manufacturing we may establish a minimum S/N ratio of 100 dB.  If a part comes off the assembly line with less we send it to the repair team. Otherwise we ship it. That's not the same use of saying a product is more desirable or less desirable for me based on this number. 

erik_squires
15,691 posts
 

@theaudiomaniac 

Is there any proof otherwise? The answer is no.

This is how conspiracy theories start and I'm leaving you alone with them.

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