What is the added value of a streamer over a networked dedicated Computer


Hi

I see lots of sales pitches for streamers as digital sources, and plenty on this site advocating them. I get that they're a purpose-built user interface but, apart from that convenience, including a visual display on the device, (i) do they really deliver better hi-fi sound as a source over a well set up computer dedicated to hi-fibreoriduction (ii) if so, why?

Here's some background to my question(s). I currently use a dedicated Mac Mini with SSD (headlessly) and Audirvana Plus software through a USB DAC. I tend to listen to digital files on external drives (wired connections). Some are high Definition eg Flac, some are aiff ripped from my extensive CD collection. Currently I only tend to use Spotify etc to test if I like music and invest in actual downloads of the music I like.  In day to day use the Mac Mini/Audirvana Plus (virtual) player is controlled using its remote app on an iPad on the same Network. If I wanted I could add high quality online streaming from, eg, Tidal. Whilst that would expand the breadth of music I have immediate access to, it seems to me to add another potential source of interruption/corruption of data flow. The Audirvana software overrides/bypasses detrimental computer audio elements and processes keeping the data path simple and dedicated to hifi audio replay.

So what, sound quality-wise, would a standalone streamer device using NAS or other drive storage and/or online web connection bring to the party? It seems to me it's just a digital device containing effectively the components of a computer with a button (or remote) interface. I understand the old argument that it's dedicated and not doing other things simultaneously and that computers are traditionally electrically noisy environments but I'm currently sceptical that with a dedicated computer, not being used for other purposes, and running a virtual device like Audirvana Plus which effectively switches off internal functions which might compromise sound, this is a real problem. Also it seems that a "dedicated streamer" contains many elements which are effectively computing elements. Note that I have no industry connection or monetary interest from Audirvana or Apple.

128x128napoleoninrags16

MHO.  I had a dedicated NUC I5 used as nothing but a roon endpoint.  Digital is digital right?  

A friend brought over an inexpensive streamer and it sounded better.

I bought the same $300 streamer and was very happy.

I then upgraded to a $4500 streamer.  There was more difference between the $300 streamer and the computer than the $4500 streamer and the $300 streamer.  

So there isn't a huge opportunity to improve here (like in a DAC for existence) but a dedicated streamer does a better job of managing the bits.

Jerry

the NUC is available.

I have direct experience in running dedicated Mini as both server/streamer and server only. Mine I7, PCIe ssd, Uptone MMK and JS2 LPS, running Roon as server only.

 

Based on your description greatest liability of present Mini is doing usb rendering within Mini, Mini very weak as renderer. You need to create second ethernet port via bridging of Thunderbolt. This https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/ will explain how to do this and also provide great info as to streaming in general! Believe me,  the bridge mod alone will totally transform sound quality!

 

So, what above means is Mini as currently implemented is far from optimal, the second ethernet port gives you ethernet out to a streamer which will do the critical function of usb rendering. Yes, you could do without the bridge and simply use a switch or router and then go from that to streamer, but this not nearly as good as bridging. This also comes from personal experience via use of audiophile switch.

 

Bottom line, using Mini for streaming not good, inferior renderer, relatively noisy device regardless of any mods one may undertake.

 

And then you have liabilities of Mac OS, from what I understand Audirvana Plus does a modicum of OS optimization on it's own, but much more can be done, need third party app wipe, go into Terminal to disable other processes such as System Integrity Protection (SIP), etc.

 

So, assuming you're willing and able to do all the above, you can have pretty nice server at this point, but a separate streamer still provides very large upgrade for sound quality. But then Audirvana really built for one computer setup, aka server/streamer combo, the server does the rendering. Roon optimized for two computer setup, the Mini or some other server and separate streamer. IMO, running Mini as one computer setup with Audirvana is far from optimal since requires Mini to do rendering.

 

So, you have the above considerations if keeping Mini. Another path would be to get rid of Mini altogether, if keeping Audirvana get server with optimized usb rendering, assuming you're continuing with usb. I'd seriously consider rendering capabilities of any server you consider for purchase, rendering is second most important component of streaming chain after dac. Point I'm making, many off the shelf servers don't have optimized rendering, which then requires adding a streamer or band aid usb filter 

 

 I should also add you could continue to use Audirvana with your Mini and streamer. My present setup running Roon utilizes Mini as server only, use Sonore OpticalRendu as streamer, extremely high quality streaming sound quality, beats my pretty nice analog setup. You could use OpticalRendu in your present setup, OpticalRendu has many choices for endpoint implementation which includes ability to use Audirvana. Also possible to implement other streamers with your present setup, just have to do the Mini mods I referred to above for optimal sound quality.

 

While Audirvana built for one computer setup, you'll still get benefit of superior rendering via separate streamer, problem is you're adding needless complexity. If wed to Audirvana I'd get very nice one computer setup vs keeping present Mini and adding streamer. Roon would be more advantaged with the added streamer. In either case, your Mini needs further mods for optimal sound.

 

There’s a lot of material on the forums that cover this, but l’m sharing a few posts that I wrote recently to help guide people on what is required in a great digital source, mainly around noise reduction and clocking/timing. Digital signals are very sensitive, and these two areas are the most significant challenges to get right to remove jitter/noise/ fatigue and enable the most natural, dynamic, and full-bodied delivery of digital music.

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2440486

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2441993

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2442047

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2445656

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2440669