Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy


"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

fleschler

@fleschler 

 Speaker designers who don't listen to adjust settings are not very good designers.

I am sure the person I was responding to was talking about electronic design. Of course speaker designers listen to their speakers. Key is whether they do that using controlled testing or not. And whether they use proper set of measurements in addition to that.  If the answer is that they don't use such measurements and only use their own ears to figure out what is or is not good sound, it would be a speaker I would stay away from.

So you are saying my oscilloscope does listen to music, I wonder what type it likes?

 

@amir_asr , I have asked in this thread and through DM’s, is this a one way street where you come here and post or are you going to tear down the wall at ASR? No one is stopping you from posting here, why are you avoiding this (and many other) questions? Are you a drive by poster or what?

I can't believe how you guys on ASR insulted Nelson pass for his amp camp amp, which he designed to sound like a tube amp. I don't see you designing an amp of any importance. I'm sure Nelson could design an amp that would measure great, but would it sound good, I think not.

@jtgofish 

ASR love to quote Floyd Toole and research done at Harman.Which is fine but the findings there have also shown that the average listener does not prefer a flat frequency response .Far from it.And different types of listeners prefer different frequency response curves and these are only averages anyway so do not properly reveal the extent of this variation.

Above tells me you either have not read Dr. Toole's research or understood it.

He absolutely does NOT advocate flat-in-room response. The response should be sloping down.  Otherwise the sound will seem bright.  

What he advocates correctly and what is followed by many top designers in the world is flat-on-axis response, and off-axis that is smooth and similar to it, but pointing down.

On-axis response is NOT an average by the way. It is a single anechoic measurement.  Of axis is made up of key strong reflections in a room. Research shows that they are most critical when it comes to off-axis performance.

Your statement about different people wanting different sound is incorrect. This has been researched across hundreds of listeners of all types.  Most of us like very similar sound and in controlled testing, pick the same speaker as the best.  See: 

 

And no, we don't accept everything Dr. Toole and his research team say. I for example don't publish preference scores for either speakers or headphones.

These are the topics we discuss day in and day out in ASR. So if this is of interest for you, ASR is the right place. If you want to stick to folklore of "we are hear differently," then not so much.