So, “Audio Science Review” really doesn’t like this video

I would rather he tested floor standing speakers, but his conclusion (favoring absorbing isolation, not hard transfer spikes) matches my own conclusion after many years.

Years ago, I thought I was so smart when I removed the wheels of my JSE Model II’s and installed spikes (on my springy wood floor).

SOLID, all intended movement gets to the cones, right? All that weight onto 4 small discs is soooo much more weight per area, just tons of force, right?

After a few years, I put 3 wheels back on, (two front, 1 center rear, with rear anti-tip corner blocks just shorter than the wheel, only contact if the speaker tilts while moving it). I didn’t measure with a mic, but I heard no detriment, and got back the ease of positioning and alternate toe-in. 

https://www.audiogon.com/systems/11516

BTW, dual wheel furniture casters, the axels do not wobble like single wheel casters do (even high quality ones I tried). The block above the 2 front wheels tilts the speakers back, aiming the tweeters to seated ear height. 

In this case, the skirt acts as the anti-tipping blocks in the rear corners.

So, my 6 wheels are hard plastic, the contact area small, not absorbent, it's a matter of enough weight relative to the wheel's diameter, so they stay put, but you can move them readily.

I gave the spikes to my friend, he has them on floor standers, on a concrete basement floor, no movement possible, and his imaging is great, only if you sit in the middle, I would put his on 3 dual wheel casters like mine, slightly smaller diameter for his, to use an alternate toe in for 2 listeners. His are narrow, taller, tweeter at seated ear height, so no tilt is needed. I prefer shorter, both inward angle and tilt to alter the angles of reflections off the floor, ceiling, side walls, especially minimize woofer floor reflection

I played around with this a bit.

The vibration, generated from the speaker, is measurable with an Iphone app. The Vibration can travel down the stands and transmit to the floor. In the video he had very well damped stands with lots of mass so that was taken care of. However, he still had vibration in the speaker itself.

Could there be an improvement by using a 'shock absorber' to damp the speaker itself? Is there possibly a microphonic effect on the internal crossover?

I achieved the same reduction in vibration by setting my speakers on square blocks of upholstery foam. The vibration was greatly reduced. I've also heard that soft yellow squash balls also work well.

There is also a method used by speaker builders that use a soft glue to reduce vibration on the crossover by anchoring the components to the circuit board. This is to prevent microphonics as well.  Just a few small connecting dots of soft glue reduce movement. A capacitor attached only by solder to it's leads can vibrate excessively.

my electrovoice crossovers, made in 1958, are in the photo above, x336, a metal can painted grey, filled with tar. I thought, age, make some new ones. Custom builders advised me they last forever, as do the drivers of the horns (impregnated linen). I did burn a tweeter coil blasting Iron Butterfly way back when. Playing the reel to reel version, you can make out the drunken ’in the garden of eden’ ....

I think his conclusions are similar to my experience throughout the years.

"The mic drop seemed to really irritate some people there. Or I don’t know, maybe it was something in one of my posts in reply - l’ll never know now."

Or perhaps it was the fact he trusted his ears and not measurements alone?  

I tried to watch but lost interest immediately.  

@mapman that’s OK, Mark might not be for everyone. I just thought the way he and his associate did the ABX test with control was unusually well executed. That and I like my humor very dry. Plus his results hint that phenomena like human experience of soundstage in the listening position is currently very difficult to model with a microphone and computer software.  Ears and brains may still actually rule in some cases.

kn

@buzz +1

Personally, I could give a flyin' f about Steve G's exhibition, as what he's hearing isn't what we are....due to our equipment repro'ing what he's doing with however he's recording it with.

...rather listen to this , with my own speakers without spikes on a concrete floor.

Gives the woofs a good dusting.
The vid central 'image' reminds me of some ancient corn cob from the stalk that was grown in some very strange soil....

....but I'm like that....In it to grin it....;)
Have a good weekend...J

Thanks for this. I enjoyed the video, and agree completely with the basic takeaway.

I don't think that there is any question that well-deigned dampening devices are superior to spikes and cone designs, and for the reason that Mark describes: the latter are actually coupling devices.

While I believe that Townshend are likely the best dampening devices on the market, I use IsoAcoustics GAIAs, as like Mark in the video, I have stand mounted speakers. Interesting, Karl-Heinz Fink, the brilliant, in my view, designer of my Fink Team KIM speakers, employed an uncommon approach to the interface between the stand and speaker: they are integral. In other words, the stands, which are neither very heavy, nor filled with lead or sand, are firmly attached to the speakers themselves at the factory. This design allows users to employ any types of footers that they like to the stands, and mitigate vibration issues in that manner.

So, I use the GAIAs as feet, and to excellent effect. The difference between the sound with spikes, and the GAIAs, is quite clear. Less smearing, better imaging, and tighter bass are all noteworthy.

As for the Audio Science crew, it's hard to tell what took that discussion off the rails. But given what I believe to be well understood about the distinctions between coupling and damping devices, which is the essence of the video, I don't know what serious objections might have been made relating to Mark's conclusions.

Well I don’t agonize over things like this the way a lot of audiophiles do.  When GAIAs first were introduced to rave reviews, I tried them and really liked them.  The first place I installed them was under my Sony SS-AR2 floor standers on a slate covered, steel reinforced concrete slab floor in my home in South Florida.  They amazed me.  Recently I installed another set of GAIA IIIs under a pair of B&W 802 D Diamonds in our summer home in New Hampshire.  This is a hardwood floor over a basement, somewhat spongey and again the improvement was astounding.  I have also used GAIAs, under three turntables with excellent results.  So it is no surprise to me to learn that others have similar experience.     

Here is an excellent article on this subject from the March 2022 issue of Positive Feedback:
 

Ten Misconceptions about Loudspeaker Spikes

I find what I call alligators along side the road .if you follow big trucks to close they throw things at you.its great for the environment because I clean the spent tire parts that's part of a big government grant I got it's working great.the side deal is my friend has this business chopping the alligators up ie tires and they use it for playground material. I figure what's good for the kids is good insulation for the speakers heck tires make your car ride better. After all most of these isolators are made of rubber.then I go to harbor freight and buy these expensive isolators called carpet dollies.i have my 700 lb magico q7 on them and roll them around for exercise.reminds me of Jane fonda. I think the drop the mic moment was a bit of humor and he stated he didn't know how to interput the data and that hurt some feelings. Having done alot of research there is scientific data variance. Enjoy the experience stay healthy don't eat red dye and keep happy.

@sargonicuse excellent read - thanks for sharing!

@knownothing

You're welcome! My pleasure. 

I have Oak floors with carpet and pad in my main listening room. I tried all the simple things on my floor standers and noticed very little difference. I then got a couple pieces of granite and put them under my speakers and it made a noticeable difference.   With a promise that I could return them if I didn’t like them, I bought the  Isoacoustics Gaia ones and they really made a very noticeable improvement in my sound stage. 
And I’m not surprised your thread was removed on ASR.  It happens all the time there.

@knownothing 

I had amazing results with the Gaia ones so I bought some pucks to go under my other equipment and I have to say that I’m really not hearing much if any difference. A few years back I bought a couple of sets of those adjustable spring isolators because my sources, DAC and preamp sit on top of an entertainment center and I can feel the vibrations when I put my hand on top. If they did anything I still can’t say. A couple years later I found an amazing deal on some Isoacoustics Orea Indigo pucks and I jumped on them and last year I bought a set of the bronze pucks.  My preamp has a couple of tubes so that was the first place I tried and I really couldn’t say if I heard a difference.  Kinda a letdown after the huge difference with the Gaia’s.

I went from spikes on cups to Herbies Threaded Stud Gliders for my large stand mounted monitors on a suspended wood floor. Huge improvement.

@curiousjim update - ASR deleted the thread I started and appended the discussion onto an older ASR thread on Isoacoustics products initiated in December.  While the only message I got from ASR was that my thread was no longer available, I later found Alerts on my member page showing my original posts and the responses to it on a completely different thread.  Weird.  Here is the link to that thread in case you are interested in seeing what folks there have to say about the video and my responses.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/isoacoustics-isolation-feet-does-it-really-make-positive-effect-or-fancy-accessories.59214/

The discussion on Mark’s video starts on page 10 of the thread.  You can see the reaction of Amir and others there.

kn

IMO, i am a believer of the Iso acoustics pucks or isolation feet. In my particular case, the improvements i heard was predominant when i was using it with my Falcon Gold Badge LS35a. i don't have floor standers  so no comment on that.

I was skeptical so I did a blind test A/B test with the wifey and she too notice a change on the spatial and overall dynamics. Obviously these are Subtle changes !! but there is something different and we both like what it brings to the sound. 

regarding the video,  i saw that a few days ago and , hmm.. we all have opinions and comments. lets leave it that way. 

In summary, I believe in what Iso Acoutics brings to the table. since that small revelation i got from using it to isolate the LS35a from the stands, I have used it now on my ATC speakers and also used it to isolate the LTA Microzotl Pre and VPI Prime table

I dont think that ASR is really about having discussions. They simply dont want to hear anything that deviates from their general beliefs. If they took a less extreme and more balanced view they might be a bit damaging to the hobby. ASR is of no consequence.

@curiousjim ” Kinda a letdown after the huge difference with the Gaia’s.”

That has been my experience in general with isolation products and Isoacoustics in particular.  So far speakers and turntables benefit most obviously.  I tried some Oreas under a Chord Qutest DAC which is small and whatever benefit they provided was outweighed by the attached cables, literally and sonically.  I tried some Oreas under my amp, and there might be a slight improvement.  I will say that I can listen to my system louder now with less fatigue, but have not tested how much of that is due to vibration control versus recent cable upgrades, or whether they are working together to make the improvements.  

My vintage Thorens suspended turntable is sitting on Mapleshade’s vibration control system which is a “drain and isolate” design with large brass spikes, a large maple wood block and isolation footers, and the change in sound provided by that is astonishing, improving just about everything.  And while it kind of matches the old Thorens vibe visually, my wife thinks it looks pretty stupid so for that reason and a constant quest for “better” I am considering a sleeker alternative.  For my small tube phono pre I am using an improvised micro version of the drain and isolate solution and not sure how much value that adds.

Finally, in a system at my daughter’s home I used some Isoacoustics pucks under her monitor speakers that are on her credenza along with her amp and turntable, and as can be expected they made a noticeable positive difference there.

My takeaway, things in your system that depend on vibration to create sound benefit dramatically from isolation.  For devices that only handle signals electronically, the benefits are considerably more subtle, and probably most detectable at higher listening levels.  As with everything HiFi, the more resolving your system overall, the more everything matters - it’s a never ending spiral…

kn

@knownothing 

Thanks for the validation. 

With all the different ears and beliefs out there, I sometimes question whether I hear what I think I hear. 😀

Why question what you hear? Is it a way to justify spending less? I never understood this skepticism. I think it is a fair assumption that the ARS crew develop their beliefs at the kitchen table and not in the listening room. Most seem to be looking for reason to spend less or not to spend at all.