Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

Here are a few audio(?) products that are either close to irrelevant or not a good value/can be substituted at 90% or less the price.

1. McIntosh LB200 Light Box $1500.  Not an audio product.  99% irrelevant.  Useful for vanity purposes.

2.  Furutech DeMaga LP demagnatizer $3300.  Furutech's own Destat III at $300 does the same thing.  So do $100 demag guns.  Heard it, no difference than Destat III. 

Hint: Brushing one's tonearm prior to play, one swipe, with an anti-static record brush can be effective for free and is quick.

3.  DS Audio’s ES 001 Eccentricity Detection Stabilizer $6000  For the fastidious LP listener who will spend more time centering his LP than listening.  It is not easy to use and the results can be beneficial, but at what cost to one's time?  

4. Shun Mook LP Clamp $5600  Heard on a high end system (Wilson Audio Alexandria Xlf, McIntosh MC 1000s, DS Master 1 cartridge, etc.)   Yes, all four of us heard a positive benefit from using this versus not using a clamp.  Was it worth it?  Not to any of us.  The owner is a audio reviewer.  Actually, the system was extremely resolving with fantastic bass and dynamics.  But, it was fatiguing to listen to after an hour.  

These are just a few examples where dubious value of high end products exists. 

As to centering LPs, a turntable that was designed to do that were a Nakamichi TX 1000 from the 1980s as I recall. I heard it at Beverly Stereo back then.  It sounded great.  I could not afford it then.  

I went back yesterday and read some ASR forums that actually had intelligent posts concerning the audio market, cable opinion by John Dunlavy, COG (cost of goods) versus sale price, Chinese manufacturing capabilities (quantity versus quality wherein either can be made but most retailers find quantity economically superior).   Again, these forums devolve into banal and non-sequitur discussions including pages on pizzas and toppings, vacations, etc.   Analogies to cars was interesting.  So, I conclude that there are interesting forums with good information (that I already knew) but are very tough to get through because of the non-topic posts and remarks

@rtorchia You are correct. My initial post was combative. I was treated like dirt and felt others should share their experiences. I think this forum accomplished that. I get upset when defamed and having my words taken out of context and perverted. Just read my last post to see I am open minded.

@prof Just because we my friend did not conduct a blind test or measure the differences doesn’t mean the results don’t exist. That’s the Amir way of things, if it doesn't measure, it doesn't exist. The before and after were SO extraordinarily different, anyone who has good hearing could tell. It’s an anecdote but unless you think he and I and our friends who now enjoy his system are fools and self-delusional, it is valid. If you have a high end system (I didn’t say cost), try a Pangea power cable into your amp or pre-amp and then borrow a moderate priced or high end cable (that’s the difficult part-finding a reputable good cable) and compare. The Pangea maybe worse than using some computer IECs. It’s just terrible (and not only in his system, but in two other friends who long ago tried it in theirs).

Just because we my friend did not conduct a blind test or measure the differences doesn’t mean the results don’t exist.

Please be careful about using strawmen.

REMEMBER I wrote: This is not a claim that ’therefore you and he were not hearing any difference.’ It is merely pointing out that just believing it, and claiming it, doesn’t advance the conversation at all.

 

That’s the Amir way of things, if it doesn’t measure, it doesn’t exist.

No, his way of things is that if it’s audible it’s likely measurable. And if you can’t demonstrate something measurable, or at least hearing under conditions controlling for bias, then the good evidence is lacking for the claim. That’s a far more careful and reasonable view than the way you just expressed it.

The before and after were SO extraordinarily different, anyone who has good hearing could tell.

 

And yet...your engineer friend, strangely, didn’t have the impulse to do any engineering - e.g. measuring to find out what explains the obvious difference the cable made. Maybe he didn’t want to. But if that’s the fact, once again we are left with no more evidence than "I’m Sure I Heard It."

I have in fact tried a variety of expensive AC cables, Shunyata for instance.  With one of the cables I could swear it obviously changed the sound of my system - "darker" and "more lush."  I didn't even know if I still liked the sound of the system with that AC cable.   But I also knew, despite my quite strong subjective impression, that we can fool ourselves.  So an engineer family member helped me do a blind test between the Shunyata against the standard $15 AC cable.  The result, once I didn't KNOW which cable I was listening to, was no sonic difference.  There was no "darkening" or "more lushness" in the sound to indicate one sounded different than the other.

This can be humbling stuff, and a real lesson about just how strong imagined subjective impressions of sound can be.   Most audiophiles haven't had that experience, but it would be nice if more did.

 

unless you think he and I and our friends who now enjoy his system are fools and self-delusional,

Again, this is a strawman. Falling to sighted bias doesn’t make anyone a "fool" it makes them human. As I said anyone, no matter the training, is vulnerable to imagining differences.

It’s fairly amazing how this fact about human nature just doesn’t seem to ever land for some folks.

It may be an ego-bruiser to accept "maybe I was actually wrong, maybe I DID imagine a difference." But sometimes it takes putting aside pride to learn something.

 

fleschler, please understand I don’t mean to imply any hard feelings or claim I’m Absolutely Right about all these issues. I’m just trying to rationally defend a certain viewpoint. You and I share much more in common regarding audio than this little disagreement. Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I’m a mixture of both sides of this discussion. My primary system consists of all components that Amir recommended (and I am very grateful for his reviews). But my secondary system is powered by an old circa 2005 British made Creek integrated that I enjoy having and listening to. But no way it measures up to the Class D stuff, in my estimation.