Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy


"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

fleschler

@axo1989 No you are so wrong. ASR nope never, Darko never even frequent his site or YouTube as he reviews the cheap crap Amir does. 

Swing and a miss. 

Try again this is the only place I post at. WBF I just read as they have people who are real experts there. Not posers like ASR. 

BTW Juan Manuel Fangio II was an Icon in F1. My Grandfather was an engineer on the Alfa Romeo team in 1950 and 1951 working with Mr. Fangio. Juan one 5 F1 Championships. 

His Nephew Juan Manuel Fangio II (my moniker) was a very accomplished IMSA and AMLS driver. 

Keep fishing. 

You do know that these measurements came about from observation first, the measurements didn’t come before observation. The science will never further if the measurements stay in stagnation, the ear/brain is more complex than the standard measurements we use for audio.

 

Did you read what I wrote? Scientists continue to do testing on human hearing to explore limits but those limits change at most now by very small amounts. Scientists are doing that. Audio companies make claims with no basis. It is quite a different process.

 

You have a belief that our ear and brain have a complexity that cannot be tested by current measurements. That is your belief. I do not see Amir disputing that for speakers. Do you? He does and it appears almost all on the scientific side dispute that for many products such as the oft hated cables (accurately most cables). No one has proven them wrong that I can tell. Lots of beliefs but no proof.

 

If you REALLY care about "learning what is going on" it may indeed entail that real audible differences are occurring in your cables.

 

I absolutely am open to the possibility. However, without any valid proof, not belief, but proof, I will err on the side of what has been proven. I used to be convinced of the same thing people hear believe till I was "forced" to accept otherwise. I don’t think any of the detractors here have ever truly tested their beliefs. How can you claim to have strong convictions if you are unwilling to test them?

 

There does seem to be consensus on the engineering side that some cables can have audible effects. I don’t see black and white, but nuanced reasoned positions. I am not seeing that from competing beliefs.

@prof 

it is not about expertise nor a defensive reaction to scientific explanations. If I hear more detail, I hear more detail. Simple as that.  Calling that delusional is wrong. The assumption that I really don't want to learn is incorrect. I learn everyday. From diyaudio, Agon and ASR. I am an open minded engineer. Maybe iIt is difficult to accept that some people have better hearing skills. Other people have beter measuring skills. 

 

 

 

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@prof, I think you misunderstood some of my points. Starting with the basic assumption that, for example, power cables can sound better, that should be something that is objectively measurable. If it cannot be, why not? I personally have heard differences between cables - not all, mind you, but some. Logically that should be measurable.  I heard a sonic improvement when I added an ARC REF6 instead of going DAC direct to amp, although that was counterintuitive to me.  That difference should be measurable too.  But ultimately, assuming that measurements do not show any difference, does that mean that I am imagining a difference or we have not developed a methodology to test differences in soundstage,for example.  I am pretty sure that I am not imagining things, but always open to confirmation bias.  That is why I ask the ultimate question: If it doesn’t measure differently, does that mean ipso facto that there are no sonic differences?