Coaxials - Reality vs. Experience?
Should say "hype vs. reality" in the headline.
Coaxial speaker design has been around in one way or another for a long time. I often think I’ll be absolutely blown away by them, but in practice traditional vertical layout speakers often have sound as good, or have other features that make them sound better.
Thiel, KEF, Monitor Audio, Tekton, Seas are among the many players attempting such designs, but none has, by the coaxial drivers alone, dominated a segment of the market.
What are your listening experiences? Is it 1 coaxial speaker that won you over, or have you always preferred them?
Hard to beat the imaging of some of the KEFs and Tannoys IME. Otherwise there is nothing particularly remarkable about the scheme. I owned the previous Spatial Audio M series which consisted of Eminence woofer with a coaxially mounted compression driver at its center. The imaging was not nearly as good as I expected from such a design but I chalk that up to the size of the woofer. |
Definitely, nobody is claiming coax or DC to be a perfect scheme, and in particular Tannoys do not look good in measurements. Fortunately I enjoy music, not measurements! The Tannoys with a 15" DC (like my Canterbury) are probably pushing that woofer a bit far, asking it to do 1,100 Hz at crossover. They are technically "beaming" at that point but the dispersion of the horn tweeter helps cover for it, somewhat. Within Tannoy fandom you’ll find fans specifically of certain driver sizes, or of the tulip vs. pepperpot wave guides. I love both the 10" and 15", and both in tulip and pepperpot, but they certainly do different things. For some reason I haven’t been enamored by a 12" DC yet; you’d think that would be the good compromise. As far as Tannoy tulip vs. pepperpot waveguide: pepperpot (usually paired with a single alnico magnet which is VERY expensive) is capable of a more vibrant, lifelike and gorgeous midrange with very fast transients and "startle" factor, but on the flipside its top end can get a bit rough and requires careful system matching to keep this in check! Tulip (dual barium ferrite magnets - this makes the drivers MUCH cheaper) is more even keeled and a great all-around performer, but can’t quite get the midrange exactly as lovely as a good pepperpot. |
As far as Tannoy tulip vs. pepperpot waveguide: pepperpot (usually paired with a single alnico magnet which is VERY expensive) is capable of a more vibrant, lifelike and gorgeous midrange with very fast transients and "startle" factor, but on the flipside its top end can get a bit rough and requires careful system matching to keep this in check!
Agreed. The occasionally sharp treble sting of my Tannoy Berkeley’s was reduced by 2 things. The first was the use of isolation under the 4 feet, especially the front pair which carried most of the speaker’s considerable weight. And secondly by gently loosening the 4 drive unit bolts to hand tightness. Otherwise, I don’t know if even all of their alnico midrange glory would have been enough for me to stay with them for so long. |
I've owned coax speakers (Thiel) and listened to a number of others - e.g KEF, Tannoy, more recently the SourcePoint 10s. I have not found any particular advantage just due to a speaker using a coax design. I don't for instance find the KEF, Tannoys or SP10s "extra coherent" or casting a soundstage unlike I can find elsewhere. In fact I've found a number of speakers, even the old Shun Mook Bella Voce (Shun Mook!!!) speakers to strike me as more coherent than for instance the Tannoys or SP10s or even the KEFs.
That said...I have found the two most recent Thiel speakers I've owned - Jim's last flagship 3.7 and also the 2.7s - to be just about the most coherent multi-driver speakers I've ever heard. Especially the 3.7. I had the Thiel CS6 at my place years ago which had their then-new coax midrange/tweeter. That speaker sounded very coherent with the exception of a slight change in character with listener position, especially vertically a bit as I remember. I think some form of interference was producing a slight "hollow" sound from certain positions. It seems that Thiel finally nailed the coax design with his last version - the tweeter set in the "flat" (corrugated) midrange driver. That speaker's midrange and treble (and bass) was just totally coherent in my home. Same with the 2.7. I can not for the life of me "hear out" the difference in drivers, any transition, cancellation or anything. And it maintains it's character over a very wide area. The sound is very consistent even when I stand up and walk around the room. The other thing with the Thiels is the insane imaging prowess. There is a focus and precision and density to the imaging I have rarely heard before. Even my Joseph Speakers, renowned for imaging, sound slightly diffuse and less tight when directly compared with the Thiels. So ultimately I have no idea how much of this to attribute to the fact it's a coax driver for the mids/highs, or to the first order/phase coherent design, or to any number of other design choices in the Thiels.
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@prof Prof 100% it is impossible to hear difference between tweeter location in the center of main driver or couple inches from . This is placebo efffect or good marketing point.LOl, Is it also applicable only to 2 way speakers , but a lot audiophile disagree, Keep Enjoy |
