Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

@lalitk

“I couldn’t help asking….you grew impatient within a week with N20, how are you going to cope with K50 long break-in 😊”

I know, right? I thought of that and it’s one of the advantages of springing for a used one rather than going for a month long trial of a new one!  I was even telling myself that is why I should buy one now, so it can be running while I am focusing on the N20!

The reason I’m impatient is that I think this has been long enough to conclude that the N20’s USB won’t cut it for me, regardless of the fact that it does some things very, very well, and I don’t know when the AES cable will arrive. My focus will return to the N20 IF the performance improves as expected with the AES cable. Right now there just isn’t anything I can do with the N20 with USB that will change how I feel which is why I’m impatient :)

I think the N20 has opened up ever so slightly more as I’ve been running it constantly, but if it has, it is very, very subtle. Pretty sure the prior owner must have done the burnin.

@nyev Your conclusion in regard to usb seems solid. Looking at how the usb implemented Phoenix vs N20 this is what should be expected.

I'd be very interested in your comparison of AES if you did get the Antipodes, I came very, very close to purchasing the K50 for the very reason of comparing SPDIF vs usb. In your case you'd also be comparing to Aurender for this rendering mode. The other thing that really sold me on Antipodes was the optimized direct network output port for use in dual streamer setups which I've found  to be optimal in my setups up to present.

@sns 

Interesting feedback on K50….coming very close to and really sold me on Antipodes; which one is it?  Did you end up buying the K50? And what DAC did you pair your K50 with….

“Right now there just isn’t anything I can do with the N20 with USB that will change”
@nyev

Your feedback on N20 USB output is interesting. I believe you’re now spoiled by PhoenixUSB which takes the incoming signal and completely regenerates it to an extremely high-precision signal to feed into your DAC. This goes back to the argument of separates vs one box. Is K50 / MU1 going to measure up, only time will tell :-)

I won’t be surprised if after trying N20 / K50 and MU1, you end up preferred your current trio of Innuos.

@lalitk I think you are right that the PhoenixUSB may have spoiled me. While it’s possible I could fall back to preferring Innuos, if I did that I’d move to the Statement (non next gen), which should be slightly better than what I have now, in a single device solution, as it not only has the PhoenixUSB embedded, it also has embedded Ethernet regen, on top of all the power supply benefits.

But, if I understand correctly, the USB output’s of the N20, K50, and the MU1 are not really optimized, while their AES interfaces ARE optimized, as intentional design choices. The N20’s AES output has the benefit of leveraging their high precision clock (so should be a better comparison with the PhoenixUSB performance), whereas the N20’s USB has no such optimization that I am aware of. Aurender’s own marketing says exactly this on the N20’s web page.

Mark Jenkins of Antipodes has talked in interviews about USB being flawed compared with other interfaces, and while I’m no expert, I think he’s likely correct, but I also think you can engineer around such flaws as Innuos (and I hear Taiko) have done. It’s just that Aurender, Antipodes, and Grimm didn’t bother. And Innuos totally didn’t bother with AES at all - until their latest line of products (Pulse).

So I think the fight isn’t fair for the N20 yet, as currently I’m comparing its non-optimized USB interface with Innous’ heavily optimized USB interface. The AES cable will allow me to compare all solutions on even terms. I think Innuos is likely king of the hill by a long shot when it comes to USB, aside from Taiko.

That’s all my running theory at least, to be substantiated through my testing….

So far, the N20 testing has really helped solidify what I like and don’t like about my Innuos setup. It’s true I had taken its strengths for granted:

Strengths I want to keep:

-Transparency

-Bandwidth (higher highs and lower lows)

-Soundstage Depth

Weaknesses I want to fix:

-Sets the listener back from the soundstage (not a flaw, this is just based on my preference)

-Could have better focus on all tones, with more solidity, and to use the word HiFi Advice likes to use, “incisiveness”.

-Not sure if I want this quite yet: could have slightly more “meat on the bones” in terms of an added richness and organic sound. The reason I’m not sure if I want this is that I don’t know if achieving this is possible without sacrificing the other qualities I’m after. I’m quite certain based on accounts of others that the K50 and N20 (with AES) are the only options that could achieve this. The question is, at what cost.

I do feel based on accounts of others that the MU1 or the K50 could possess have these all covered.  I probably shouldn’t discount the Statement too.