My feeling as well. I may have opinions about pin point imaging, but frankly it is nowhere near the top of my list of prioritizes when listening. Most of my listening is done outside the sweet spot. I focus more on tonal issues and rhythmic coherence. In fact, as fun as imaging can be when in the mood for ear candy, I find it can be a distraction from other things that are more important to me.
Solving the "complex music problem"?
I have noticed that, regardless of the system, simple music (i.e. music with only a few sounds at the same time, such as a solo instrument) sounds way better than what I'll call here "complex music", meaning music like symphony that has a lot of instruments all playing different sounds at the same time. I'm assuming that this is an inherent problem for audio equipment. In a live symphony, you might have, say, 15 different unique instruments (i.e. counting all the violins as 1 unique instrument), each of which is vibrating in a different way; but in a speaker, each driver might be trying to reproduce 10 of those sounds at the same time. So each driver is a single physical object trying to vibrate in 10 different ways at the same time. The result is that the music sounds muddy, all the different parts blend together and you lose a lot of the detail.
I have a number of questions about this that I'm hoping all you experts can help me with.
1. Is there an established name or term for this issue?
2. Do you think my diagnosis of the problem above is correct? Or is something else going on?
3. Although this is always a problem, it's a much bigger problem on some systems than others. Are there some types of components, or some brands, that are particularly good (or bad) when it comes to this issue?
4. To what extent is this issue related to the components you have as compared to speaker placement and room acoustics?
5. To me, this is a huge issue. But I don't see it discussed all that often. Why do you think that is? Or, perhaps, it is being discussed all the time, but people are using a term I don't recognize? (hence question 1).
Full disclosure, I asked a related question under the heading "need amp recommendations for more separation of instruments" and got a lot of super helpful responses. I'm very grateful to everyone who took the time to respond there. That discussion was focused on a solution to my particular problem. Here I'm hoping to have a more general discussion of the issue. I know it's bad form to post the same question twice, but in my mind, this is a significantly different question. Thanks.
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IMHO for complex music good musical instruments and voices separation the most important component is amplifier. Speakers and source are important too. But you can have a great CD player or vinyl setup and great speakers, good room acoustic and mediocre amplifier will make complex music sound congested. On another hand great amplifier with just decent speakers and source gives good complex music separation and such system will sound much better in general vs system described before. |
@alexberger +1, a good amp can make mediocre speakers sound totally better, so you don't even recognize them. Great speakers with a cheesy amp is hopeless. |
ahuvia - we converge - nice with a thread that actually brings agreement. The recording (and production) sure means a lot. A quite simple but important factor is playback volume. I can remember from way back when, turning down the volume on hard-sounding complex passages and then up again on more quiet passages, with a variety of playback systems and rooms from the 70s onwards. Not really a solution, but a quick-fix that made the album more listenable. I also agree regarding the big role of the amp. Also connected to volume. Most amps have a 'volume window' where they sound best, above 'dull' and below 'hard'. When the speakers match this window (some would even say; the optimal volume setting), there are sonic rewards. |
I have been on a buying spree getting concert bluerays and dvd's at local thrift shops for peanuts as streamers are clearing out their closets. Live recordings in 5.1 dolby or DTS, played from physical media, not streamed, and upmixed into 9.2.2 surround blow away any type of traditional CD or stereo mix. It seems the recording and production for these live concert discs are excellent. Check out your local thrift stores and get them if you have a home theater for playback. |
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