Grimm MU1 Streamer - Really "The Best"?

Thanks All for the excellent advice and thoughts. Yes, I’d be even more surprised if the sound of the N20 doesn’t change over the next two weeks. I’m being patient now!

@sns yes my next step down the road will be to try an alternate server with AES. Maybe the best next server to try would be the Grimm, which is known for its transparency and neutrality. The reason why it might be best as the next in line is that if the Grimm doesn’t get me that extra degree of transparency, along with the expected bump in performance over USB, then I guess at that point I could reasonably conclude that I need to lean towards the Innuos Statement (possibly with a different cable as @ghasley suggested), if I am committed to the Gryphon DAC module. I really hope my quest doesn’t evolve to looking into streaming DACs… my aversion to that approach is really due to budget - which needs to be higher to factor in the cost of the DAC while achieving a comparable quality, not to mention that I would feel then need to buy a premium interconnect, likely for higher cost than the AES cables I’ve been looking at.

I’m confident the Statement wouldn’t have the issue with overall image solidity, but while my Innuos gear is clearly class-leading at transparency and detail, what comes through just isn’t as stable, solidified, saturated and focused as on the Aurender as I mentioned above. I could be mistaken but I’d be surprised if a cable fixed this issue. Especially because the N20 with those same cables absolutely does not have this issue.

@ghasley my upstream components include the Innuos PhoenixNET also with AudioQuest Diamond Ethernet cables on either side of it. I’ve been experimenting with and without the PhoenixNET with the N20. Still not sure I like the combination as there seems to be an additive effect towards overall smoothness, whereas this really helps with the Innuos Zenith Mk3 + PhoenixUSB. Torus RM20 powering everything on a dedicated AC line, Audioquest Hurricane source cables powering everything except the Torus and Diablo300 which are Dragons.  My full system is listed on my profile.

@lalitk ​​@ghasley , just on the topic of my access to demo cables in Canada, you are right I probably don’t have access to test the variety of cables you have access to. I’ve tested the usual suspects though, for power cords and speaker cables: Audioquest, Shunyata, Nordost, Transparent, Cardas. I also used to have a pair of Clarus Crimson Biwires (fantastic cables) that I sold when I got the Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker cables. For the record, I didn’t find the Valhalla 2’s to be leaner or brighter than any of the other cables I tested, aside from Cardas which were too slow and warm in my system. The Nordost’s were however far more revealing and yes they have that crisp leading edge quality that Nordost are known for. Certainly no less bass than the others. The Valhalla 2 power cord and USB cable DID have noticeably less bass however. But the speaker cables don’t seem inhibited this way. I’ve read that Gryphon does poorly with extra high capacitance cables like Cardas and there are even reports of some Gryphon users blowing fuses when using Cardas with certain Gryphon amps.

As above, I’m seeking slight warmth in my components, and transparency and neutrality in my cables. My philosophy was to try not to use cables as tone controls for my gear, and to let my gear be the voice of my system. But maybe I need to be a bit more flexible in my philosophy, if I were to go the Innuos route. I did find a dealer who was offering a pretty great discount on a new Statement.

Back to the sound, I’ve noticed a class of music that Innuos clearly does better with than the N20 in my opinion - with the caveat that the AES cable and circuit is still presumably burning in. Music that has a sense of atmosphere driving it, music with air, space, and immersion. The N20 is simply not as immersive with its more dense and solid sound. In comparison these songs with Innuos have air and detail that leap out of my speakers to create an immersive space for the song to exist in. I used the word “expansive” earlier to describe this. Again, not saying the N20 isn’t good in this area but the Innuos is on another level on this particular dimension. I still think I prefer the N20 overall across all music because it has more focus, but I thought this was interesting. I found a dealer who offers excellent discounts on the Innuos Statement, so that could possibly unlock the top of the line Next Gen as an option. But only if I were to go straight to it and bypass buying the others so I don’t lose any cash buying and selling…. If I needed some more liquidity/organic smoothness, I could always resort to a nice Shunyata USB cable. Using “resort” only because it would be compromising my cable philosophy slightly.

It’s an avenue worth considering, because I’m fairly sure the only drawback I’ll find with the Statement Next-Gen is a slight lack of warmth, which is not the biggest deal and yes, can be addressed with cables. InnuOS certainly doesn’t seem performance-limited with my DAC when it comes to detail, air, and space. Wheras the N20 could possibly be limited, given the unexpected result of AES sounding absolutely identical to USB (there may be just the slightest bit of added high frequency sparkle with USB still over AES, not sure).

@nyev I agree, seems your Gryphon supplies desired level of resolution, transparency with Innuos so Gryphon not the problem. And you hear desired musicality with Aurender, again Gryphon is capable of delivering here for you. This leaves streamer, in your position I'd stretch for new gen Statement, you may be surprised in what the very top tier of the top tier may bring you. Sean Jacobs designs Innuos power supplies, that new PS is really world class, present Statement first gen are jumping on the new gen PS. I can only say change from HDPlex power supply in my custom build streamer to JCAT Optimo ATX was a HUGE improvement, ps is extremely impactful in streamer SQ.

@sns I can only say change from HDPlex power supply in my custom build streamer to JCAT Optimo ATX was a HUGE improvement, ps is extremely impactful in streamer SQ.

I’ll take it a step further and say that the quality of the power supply impacts every single audio component.

Charles

@sns , regarding the Statement Next-gen, I think I’ve come back down to earth a bit and realized I don’t want to go that route.  I asked myself the question of whether in 10 years, how will I likely feel about this very expensive component?  Would I be happy today with a top of the line server that came out in 2013?  The answers to these questions are obvious.  With a fair degree of certainty I can say that in 10 years I’ll be going through this process again.  The server is probably the component in our system that will age-out the soonest.  If I had unlimited disposable funds I’d consider this route but alas that is not the case!

I was also considering my priorities sonically last night.  What I realized is that while I like the “touch of warmth” in the server, that’s not the most important thing I’m missing from my current Innuos gear right now.  Everything with the Innuos, while ultra-detailed with dimensionality and space, is presented more delicately.  Snare drums hit lighter.  Everything hits lighter. Guitars are less tangible.  Vocals are more distant.  Everything is slightly less solid and present.  

Buying the N20 was so worth it if only for me to figure this stuff out and learn things about my Innuos gear that I wasn’t aware of - both it’s strengths and it’s flaws.