Analyzing DACs

Confusion is a part of audio unless you are pretentious enough to think you know all the answers as some in these forum posts are prone to pontificate🤣

I HIGHLY recommend, before you attempt to digest many of these opinions, purchase and read "The Complete Guide to High-End Audio", 5th edition, Robert Harley. You won't need to read it cover-to-cover unless you want, just refer to areas of interest. I downloaded the kindle version three years ago and still refer to it. He is an expert and well respected by many audiophiles. And he writes well enough for novice or pro.

You may want to search Hans Beekhuyzen's YouTube channel for great info on DACs et.al. He reviews, but does not try to sell. (For e.g., he reviewed several in the Denafrips line, Jay's Audio DAC ladder, the Arcam ST60, Mola Mola, Chord products, and the well respected NAD C658 (which you can simply use the DAC bypassing the preamp as in others). Decide if you want a Roon endpoint when considering your next DAC.

Have fun learning! And welcome to the wonderful world of audio! 

@mastering92 And not all DAC chips are created equal. The easier it is to implement/ it can withstand all kinds of substandard parts tolerances and teperature variations/ the worse it will sound. Rather than have all parts when, which measured, do not vary wildly and will compliment eachother to create a high-performace unit

The tried and true formula seems to be cheap and low quality level parts then utilization of off the shelf OP-amps. One thing is for sure, these OP-amps will consistently provide very good test measurements.That’s the apparent objective target, measure good.

The sound quality reproducing music can be subpar. But that seems besides the point, and not the important criteria. The game plan is great measurements at a very low retail cost. OP-amps and their generous NFB will get the desired result.

Charles

@jasonbourne52 - There’s a review by Goldensound for the Denafrips Ares II that includes measurements that demonstrate the oversampling slow filter having some very unexpected and the fast filter appearing to measuring as expected.  The recommendation was to not use the slow filter.  I don’t know if the specific unit being reviewed had an issue, but it’s very interesting that the nearly unanimous consensus is that the DAC sounds the best using the slow filter.  I have not spent a lot of time comparing the two, but switched to the fast filter based on the review and recently went back to the slow filter and also preferred it’s sound. 
 

Experiences like this challenge my natural tendency to believe that something that measures better should sound better.  I’m starting to believe that measurements have little meaning because it’s become unquestionably clear that individual preferences simply do not align with measurements.

Objectivists accuse subjectivists of being subject to expectation bias, placebo effect, etc.  Is it possible that the primary factor in objectivists preferring the sound of equipment that they believe to be superior based on measurements is a result of the same factors?

I’ve tried different scenarios:

Topping D70s dac acting as a preamp straight into a GoldNote PA10. Then a Creek integrated amp acting as a preamp preceded by the same dac switched to pure dac mode, Then eventually purchased an SPL Elector for a dedicated preamp instead of the Creek (same configuration).

This particular dac as pre sounded…pretty good. Decent stage, good clarity, bass weight ok.

with the Creek, sounded…pretty good. Just wider stage, more interesting tonally, but not as fast.

Enter SPL preamp…huge improvement, by several factors, at least. Wider and deeper, more balanced while being more tonally rich, but also more accurate/there. Much more clarity, bass weight, bass quality, presence, center image, believability, pace, speed, dynamics, refinement, smoother. Sometimes even have trouble stopping the music to pee, it’s so good.

It’s interesting how nuanced and variable sampling different components in the chain can become. But to me, a very well designed output stage (or series of very good output stages) can be a game changer.

Topping dac as a dac is great in this arrangement. Better than as a pre/dac. But a Chord Dave as a pre/dac? I would assume a whole other animal much much better than a topping pre/dac. But I’d still stick with my SPL pre, given the choice. Always with the prospect of getting an even better dac down the line.