Yeah but those plenty of explanations of burn-in are theories. Not proof. If it were proven, ASR followers would easily subscribe to the published proof, and would not have any issue in admitting that burn-in is a thing. They have suggested, strongly (please correct me if I am wrong on this but I believe this is their position) that burn-in is a figment of the listener’s imagination, that it is the listener than changes their mind as they adapt to the sound, not the gear. This precise example is just like researchers were asserting that the sizzling sounds of meteors are in the observer’s minds, until the "proof" later indicated otherwise.
Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)
About 25 years ago I was inside a large room with an A-frame ceiling and large skylights, during the Perseid Meteor Shower that happens every August. This one time was like no other, for two reasons: 1) There were large, red, fragmenting streaks multiple times a minute with illuminated smoke trails, and 2) I could hear them.
Yes, each meteor produced a sizzling sound, like the sound of a frying pan.
Amazed, I Googled this phenomena and found that many people reported hearing this same sizzling sound associated with meteors streaking across the sky. In response, scientists and astrophysicists said it was all in our heads. That, it was totally impossible. Why? Because of the distance between the meteor and the observer. Physics does not allow sound to travel fast enough to hear the sound at the same time that the meteor streaks across the sky. Case closed.
ASR would have agreed with this sound reasoning based in elementary science.
Fast forward a few decades. The scientists were wrong. Turns out, the sound was caused by radiation emitted by the meteors, traveling at the speed of light, and interacting with metallic objects near the observer, even if the observer is indoors. Producing a sizzling sound. This was actually recorded audibly by researchers along with the recording of the radiation. You can look this up easily and listen to the recordings.
Takeaway - trust your senses! Science doesn’t always measure the right things, in the right ways, to fully explain what we are sensing. Therefore your sensory input comes first. You can try to figure out the science later.
I’m not trying to start an argument or make people upset. Just sharing an experience that reinforces my personal way of thinking. Others of course are free to trust the science over their senses. I know this bothers some but I really couldn’t be bothered by that. The folks at ASR are smart people too.
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@nyev again, you are wrong. If you want more on this particular topic explained, here you go : But that is still besides the point; your whole argument is a fallacy, and until you fix that, you can’t communicate with people who care about the facts and what science says, and to your point, your mind remains closed. |
The only people fooling themselves are those believing such nonsense. Here is the background on this. The rumor started on SBAF forum. Some guy found a distributor for Topping products who had the same *first name* as me, i.e. Amir. That is like thinking anyone called John is like any other person called John in US! He then made another preposterous claim that Topping and SMSL are the same company. This is completely untrue. These are fierce competitors and are not at all part of any company, holding or otherwise. I pointed this out on ASR a few years ago when this came up and have heard anyone repeat it until now. So to be clear, I have zero business relationship with any audio company, Chinese or otherwise. I retired successfully from technology industry more than a decade ago and am in no need of commercial benefits in that manner. My methodology for recommending audio products is based for the most part on objective measurements which cannot be subject to bias in that manner even if I did have a connection with them. So please don't go spreading such rumors, much less to say there is any kind of "proof." If you have proof, present it. Otherwise, you are just showing how little it takes for you to believe in complete fantasy. |
@fredrik222 , have you asked ASR if they agree with the link you posted? I doubt they do!! That’s my point. Now that @amir_asr has joined the discussion maybe he can weigh in. But I’m guessing he is not interested in engaging, beyond the more unfortunate topic he responded to. |
The funny thing about the subjective/objective divide is that it's ALL subject to scientific evaluation. E.g. "burn-in" may be a mechanical phenomenon and measurable with tools we have or it may not yet be measurable. Or, "burn-in" may be something which happens in the brain/mind of the listener. We certainly lack to the tools to measure brains that precisely, yet. Or it may not be a phenomenon at all, either objectively or subjectively. But science cannot prove negatives. If the phenomenon exists, it falls under the remit of science, which will do the best it can, be it physics, psychology, or whatever. |
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