What's A Good Upgrade From A Manley Steelhead?

@rooze , Sorry for being late to your thread. I think lewm and rauliruegas have a lot to offer on this subject. IMHO the best solid state units easily dwarf the best tube units for accuracy and quietness. The Moon phono stages are exactly the type of design I look for, well built and unadorned with rarely used switches, circuits, etc. With units like the CH and Dartzeel you are buying a bunch of capability you will never use. So why pay for it. I would be surprised if the Moons did not equal or surpass these units. My own feeling is that if you are going to use multiple arms and cartridges then you should use multiple phono stages suited to the individual cartridge.

There are two basic types of phono stages, current mode and the more common voltage mode. IMHE cartridges with an impedance less than 3 ohms will definitely perform better with a balanced current mode unit Like The Sutherland, BMC or Channel D phono stages. Above 3 ohms, if a cartridge has an output greater than 0.5 mv, current mode will work fine. Above 10 ohms a voltage mode unit is mandatory. Some phono stages will do both like the Channel D units. The best sound I ever heard coming from a turntable is from a Lyra Atlas Lambda SL through a Channel D phono stage running in current mode with digital RIAA correction. 

Signal to noise ratio is critical. Even small amounts of added noise can play havoc with the sense of reality. The Moon units are SOTA in this regard. The only phono stage that I know can do better is the Channel D Seta L20 which is pushing $50K, not what you would call a value. I have an Ortofon MC Diamond, 6 ohms with an output of 0.2 mv. It struggles through the channel D in current mode because the signal to noise ratio is not good enough. It would positively sing through the Moon units. The Lyra and a MSL Signature Platinum perform brilliantly so I plan on selling the MC Diamond. As an all around phono stage for someone who is not interested in digital RIAA correction the Moon units are unbeatable at any price level. I also believe that the absolute best sound comes from a very low impedance cartridge driving a current mode phono stage. The Channel D compromises signal to noise for a wildly wide bandwidth, 5 mHz! This approach only works with a limited number of cartridges until you get to the Seta L20 which will mate with any cartridge but at a very high price.  

@mijostyn Thanks for the great info. This adds immensely to the reading I've done so far on the Moon and also on the Sutherland Big Loco. Both the Moon and Sutherland seem pretty rare on the used markets but I've stored a search on hifishark.

Ideally, I'd like to try a good SS phono while I still have my Steelhead around. I'm concerned about sacrificing some musicality (tubes) for musical accuracy (solid-state) and not realizing that there's been a retrograde step in musical enjoyment until it's too late....if that makes any sense. 

Though I've played with a few different tube phono stages I've very limited hands-on with solid-state units. In fact, the only SS unit I've had in my system in the past 4/5 years has been the little iFi iPhono3 Black Label - which was pretty darned good for its modest price. 

Thanks!

@lewm thanks for sharing the cap choices w wider audience…. i think there might be a decent overlap of our parts bins…. Roger and Richard Vandersteen helped inform many choices there…. 

To the OP - great move… a bit of a trove of NOS tubes from trusted sources - I use both Brent and Andy at Vintage tube services. I might add that isolation of a tube phono stage and to a lesser degree but still important for SS, is critical. I use HRS but obviously there are MANY other effective isolation devices…. 

@mulveling spot on dude… both my Phono 2se and 5se have Andy sourced NJ 1960’s Tung Sol black plates in the power supply….. wow….. and greatly maginified by HRS…

Low cost dip toe into water SS stage is….. Dynavector…on mk 4 now as i recall….. but again….. seeker of neutrality…or ?

Fun to all.

Jim

OP might i suggest a call w Jonathan at Ultra Fidelis, he is super into analog and carries Moon and ARC, Lyra…. etc…. Honest and helpful as the day is long. He helped immensely in guiding my buddy an Orchestra conductor of note to a fantastic Moon pre and power based system.

Re your Basis, Randy at Optimal in Santa Monica has probably sold more ? Basis TT on planet than anyone… he will have some insights also….

Best to you in music

Jim

Dear @rooze : Things are that I used for at least 10 years tube alternative everywhere, so I have the whole tube first hand experiences.

" I’m concerned about sacrificing some musicality (tubes) for musical accuracy (solid-state) and not realizing that there’s been a retrograde step in musical enjoyment until it’s too late....i "

Look, if you attend at a concert and the people surrounded you are not audiophiles and you mention talking with one of them the word " musicality " you can be sure that he will ask you what exactly do you mean with that.

I attend at least each week to listen live MUSIC and I can tell you that even with some gentlemans that are audiophile and when we are talking about the score we listened no one mentioned that word. What we can hear from them is: emotive, dynamic power, feelings, even ( depending how near you was seated from the source ) brigthness or harsness, transients response speed and the like but not: musicality, detail, warm, lush, nuances that are tube audiophile adjectives.

Now, I know what you mean by musicality and today in almost all SS electronics accurated is not " figthing " any more with musicality, both terms are true and live together in today well designed SS electronics.

Yes, @mijostyn is totally rigth and I agree with him not because both coincide about but because it’s a reality.

Sooner or later for the MUSIC lovers that " adopted " the tube sound signature will know the " true " that just are not willing not to accept it but even try it.

If at the end you decide to buy the 610/810 LP unit you have to take in count that that accuracy of the Moon unit will tell you all what’s happening in your system and maybe somethings you could not be totally satisfied  and this could happens in your system because nothing could be " hidden " behind the SS unit when with tubes that " hidden " happens day by day minute after minute. Anyway, you can be sure that the 610LP gives you nothing but what the cartridge pick-up from the LP grooves adding and losting almost nothing but MUSIC.

R.