Imaging did not mean much to the late Art Dudley. There is a video where he speaks with Herb Reichert about imaging.
Is Imaging Worth Chasing?
Man, am I going to be torn apart for this. But I says what I says and I mean what I says.
Here’s a long term trend I’ve noticed in the audio press. Specs that used to be front and center in equipment reviews have essentially disappeared. Total harmonic distortion, for instance. Twenty years ago, THD was the start and end of the evaluation of any amplifier. Well, maybe power, first. Then THD. Armed with those two numbers, shopping was safe and easy.
The explanation for the disappearance is not hard to figure. Designers got so good in those categories that the numbers became meaningless. Today, most every amp on the shelf has disappearingly low distortion. Comparing .00001 to .000001 is a fool’s errand and both the writers and the readers know it. Power got cheap, even before Class D came along to make it even cheaper. Anyone who tries bragging about his 100 watts will be laughed out of the audio club.
Stereophile still needed to fill it’s pages and audiophiles still needed things to argue about so, into the void, stepped imaging. Reviewers go on and on about imaging. And within the umbrella of imaging, they write separately about the images height, width, and depth. “I closed my eyes and I could see a rock solid picture of the violas behind the violins.” “The soundstage extended far beyond the width of the speakers.” And on and on.
Now, most everyone who will read this knows more about audio equipment than me. But I know music. I know how to listen. And the number of times that I’ve seen imaging, that I’ve seen an imaginary soundstage before me, can be counted on my fingers. Maybe the fingers of one hand.
My speakers are 5-6 feet apart. I don’t have a listening chair qua listening chair but I’m usually 8-9 feet back. (This configuration is driven by many variables but sound quality is probably third on the list.) Not a terrible set-up, is my guess from reading lots of speaker placement articles. And God knows that, within the limited space available to me, I have spent enough time on getting those speakers just right. Plus, my LS50s are supposed to be imaging demons.
I’ve talked to people about this, including some people who work at high-end audio stores. Most of them commiserate. It’s a problem, they said. “It usually only happens with acoustic music,” most of them said. Strike one. My diet of indie rock and contemporary jazz doesn’t have much of that. “You’ve got to have your chair set up just right. And you’ve got to hold your head in just the right place.” Strike two. Who wants to do that?
(Most of the people reading this forum, probably. But I can’t think of any time or purpose for which I’ve held my head in a vise-like grip like that.)
It happens, every now and then. For some reason, I was once right up next to my speakers. Lots of direct sound, less reflections. “The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads” was playing. And I literally gave a start because David Byrne was standing on the coffee table. Cool.
But, generally speaking, imaging is something I only read about. And if that little bit of imaging is the dividend of dropping more money into my system, I’m not sure that I want to deposit into that account.
I think that I still have a few steps to take that will pay benefits other than imaging. But maybe the high-end is not for me.
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yes - certainly - absolutely - without qualification essential aspect of creating a reasonable, credible facsimile of a real performance not all recordings have good soundstaging info... but when you have heard a proper setup playing material that throws a proper image, in size, width, depth, specificity, you get what the essence of this pursuit is all about, the utter joy it brings |
@kota1 , I will repeat what I said in another topic where you trolled my post. Was not having your whole topic removed a good enough lesson on behavior? It is rude to use a discussion for what now appears to be a vendetta. @kota1 you posted, in a single topic, no less than 6 links to videos and articles that were either very questionable in content, or outright grossly wrong. I would appreciate if you stopped your incessant inane attempts to discredit me and worry more about your own credibility.
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@thespeakerdude , I think both a poor speaker set up well and a good one set up poorly will not image correctly. There is no such thing as a perfect room. Rooms always create problems although some are better than others. I use 8 foot Sound Labs speakers. Each one disperses exactly 45 degrees. In my room they cover all but a sliver at both side walls, perfect. The cut off is very sharp both horizontal and vertical. I always use heavy acoustic tile behind panel speakers to attenuate the rear waves. In my case that is the only room treatment required. They are crossed to 4 subwoofers at 100 Hz digitally and the whole system is digitally corrected and EQed to my preference. Each channel has exactly the same frequency response. Point source speakers require much more room treatment, horns are not as difficult. The best point source systems can image beautifully but they always produce a small image even sitting near field. I have never heard a point source system convince me that I am at a live performance, line arrays can. They also project power better which is why they are used at outdoor and stadium concerts. Another advantage of ESLs is that they are "one way" and can be used without a crossover discounting subwoofers. Crossovers are the most serious design issue dynamic speakers have. I think the most reliable way around this problem is digital bi or tri amping. I still prefer passive speakers as I would want more control over amplifier choice and crossover specification. |
The size of the image is limited by what is on the recording not by the speakers. |
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