Phono Stage upgrade to complement Dohmann Helix One Mk 2

Dear @mijostyn  : For years I used the B alignment and today I use the A alignment.

In numbers the B alignment gives you 0.04% on average RMS distortion lower than the A alignment but in the other side both kind of alignments are almost the same and its difference is that the B one overhang is 0.46 mm longer than the A alignment.

My common sense says that you or me in reality can't be absolute sure which is the alignment we are using or maybe we are in between or near A or near B.

In anyway the distortion numbers are so close and the change groove after groove is no higher than 0.001% that not even a bat can discern about.

Now, make an unbiased test with same tonearm, same cartridge and same everything: unmount thecartridge and then mount it as if will be the first time and make that excersice at least twice and you can be sure that both tests exist tiny very tiny differences.

Btw, unidin is not a standard alignment and ceratinly has not new equations alignmwent but only a manipulation of Löfgren parameters. Any one can has its own alignment if knows how manipulate those parameters. VPI tonearms have its own alignment. Through Analog Planet site M.Fremer with the help of his mentor ( Wally that pass away. ) made the comparison between all the standard alignments and the unidin one looking for the distortion levels where was clear that Löfgren was better.  Unidin is only marketing and nothing more than that. As I said number manipulation and it's really easy to know that manipulation.

For me always is better to go with the Standard Löfgren A/B.

R.

@holmz

Thanks for sharing your experience with Dohmann, and the details about cartridges that you discussed together! I’ll have to look into that WAM zenith disc, but I’ve been using the AnalogMagik software with decent results, and there is one aspect of that software, while not perfect, I’ve read can be used to help with zenith: apparently somehow the VTA measurement may actually do a better job at measuring zenith. The azimuth adjustment with the AnalogMagik software seems to do a good job, getting the crosstalk to match between channels, but there’s no way to meaure that SRA, so I’ll have to watch that video one weekend, and see if it’s worth it. Presently, I just use electonic level in my phone camera, and use that to verify that the tonearm is level (0 degrees) when playing.

I guess I should try the Baerwald alignment now that I’ve been listening to the UNIDIN for a few months. . .

I think that the turntable sounds phenomenal! One aspect that I think stands out is the balance of the presentation: the music is just balanced, so that the instruments are distinct, clear, and yet communicative and musical. There isn’t one range that overwhelms another.

I have two Schroder CB 11 tonearms installed, and I’ve used four cartridges thus far: the Lyra Atlas, Koetsu Urushi Black, My Sonic Lab Ultimate Platinum, and Lyra Etna Lambda SL. Presently, the latter two are installed.

If you’re ever visiting central Florida and want to listen, send me a message.

@mijostyn @sksos

Well, I’ll have to try the Loefgren B then!

Yes, there is a little post that you can lift to support the turntable while adjusting things. Once, I forgot to lower it after an adjustment, and left the post up, and the interference that I noted was remarkable, so that minus K really works!

@rauliruegas 

Thanks for sharing your experience with the alignments!

@rauliruegas , I think unidin is a joke. As whether or not I can hear the difference between Lofgren A or B, I seriously doubt it. But, it make me feel better that I am using the alignment with the lowest distortion across most of the record. When aligning a cartridge I take the utmost care to get it exactly right using all the tools at my disposal. You are right in that it is a very small world and it is not easy to get it exactly right given the number of pitfalls. I am a furniture maker. I make furniture with hand cut joints that have to fit exactly right, no gaps. It takes a very fastidious mind to do that, unfortunately a mind that sees errors in everything it observes. 

@drbond , darn right the MinusK works. The benefits of good isolation are legion. I would never own a turntable that was not properly suspended. The outside world is loaded with noise and rumble, vibration of all sorts. The cartridge is a very sensitive vibration measuring device and it has no way of knowing where the vibration comes from. For fun get a seismograph app on your phone and put it on a granite countertop. Watch what happens when the wife walks around or the AC starts up. Open the garage door, sneeze. Anyone who thinks mass is enough isolation needs to perform this experiment.   Lastly, put your seismograph phone on the Dohmann's platter, dead quiet. Darn right it works. 

Mark Döhmann runs Nirvana Sound in Australia, as well as having his own website. You could reach out to him and discuss. I’ve spoken to him about phono stage and cartridge recommendations in the past. He’s really responsive and a wealth of knowledge. 

Thanks for sharing your experience with Dohmann, and the details about cartridges that you discussed together! I’ll have to look into that WAM zenith disc, but I’ve been using the AnalogMagik software with decent results, and there is one aspect of that software, while not perfect, I’ve read can be used to help with zenith: apparently somehow the VTA measurement may actually do a better job at measuring zenith.

The WAM people mention their micro scope measurements and they a small USB microscope at the edge if the record to get SRA, and then shim the cartridge to get SRA to ~92 degrees.

Even with VTA at zero, many cart can have SRA be off by many degrees.

The azimuth adjustment with the AnalogMagik software seems to do a good job, getting the crosstalk to match between channels, but there’s no way to measure that SRA, so I’ll have to watch that video one weekend, and see if it’s worth it.

They have some 3-10 minute videos on the SRA and microscopes on the WAM site.

Presently, I just use electonic level in my phone camera, and use that to verify that the tonearm is level (0 degrees) when playing.

I guess I should try the Baerwald alignment now that I’ve been listening to the UNIDIN for a few months. . .

Others have said the Loefgren is better, so not having done the maths and graphs yet, I would not personally rush into it… But Frank (Schroder) designs it for Baerwald, and he also seems to know what he is doing.
Perhaps one late afternoon or evening you could try calling Nirvana Audio +61-3-… and ask Mark. He likes the Schroder arms and speaks highly of Frank, and would likely know.
As mentioned in the previous thread… personally I think that the Azimuth, Rake (SRA/VTA) and Zenith are more important… and Mark seemed to agree, and we quickly had moved onto the AudioMagic and talking about WAM and how they attack these versus how AudioMagic approached it. And he is involved with both, and carries both products.

@rauliruegas mentioned .04% RMS distortion, but I know what that is in angular space. I would be more worried about SRA and Zenith, and get a USB scope or the WAM measurement service and shims… to remove a potential “handful of degrees”, before stressing about smaller errors from Baerwald, Loefgren or UNIDEN.

I think that the turntable sounds phenomenal!

^This last statement^ makes me think that maybe it is good enough 😊

My setup was suffering some remaining sibilance on the hottest recordings, so I upgraded the arm and cart to try and ameliorate that. And the table rebuilt sort of snuck in there.
If it was not for sibilance on some hot pressings, I would have called it a day and just kept listening.
The Helix I heard at the HQ sounds like a similar set up to yours, but maybe a different cart. It sounded great…

1. Was it better than my old TT with the old arm and old cart?
   1. “Yeah it was, but not by miles on good pressings.”
2. Did it ever sound bad to the point where I was paying attention to tracking flaws or sibilance?
   1. Never (not like my old arm/cart sometimes can.)

Once one forgets that there is a system there, and the music just flows, then for me I have sort of “arrived”.

One aspect that I think stands out is the balance of the presentation: the music is just balanced, so that the instruments are distinct, clear, and yet communicative and musical. There isn’t one range that overwhelms another.

I have two Schroder CB 11 tonearms installed, and I’ve used four cartridges thus far: the Lyra Atlas, Koetsu Urushi Black, My Sonic Lab Ultimate Platinum, and Lyra Etna Lambda SL. Presently, the latter two are installed.

If you’re ever visiting central Florida and want to listen, send me a message.

I am unlikely to visit Florida, but if I do get to the area… then, in the double negative sense, “I wouldn’t say no.” 😉

Mark Döhmann runs Nirvana Sound in Australia, as well as having his own website. You could reach out to him and discuss. I’ve spoken to him about phono stage and cartridge recommendations in the past. He’s really responsive and a wealth of knowledge.

@mattn22 posted while i was typing… and said it more clearly. (Just call)

If I do not end up buying the Zenith disk, then the next time I am in Melbourne, I’ll likely stop by and drop off a “thank you” token. (Which is usually 750ml)
It is like a symbolic offering 😇