Demise of bass quality in Main speakers
When I was shopping for new speakers in addition it became quite clear that modern day main speakers are being made with smaller bass drivers. And to get larger bass drivers you have to go up to alot more expensive models and still they or on the small side.
The Industry came up with a solution for bass challenged main speakers - buy two subwoofers to solve the problems of the modern age main speaker. And subwoofers now being sold in pairs have 8 inch or 10 inch driver sizes, which are still not big enough unless you spend a lot more money.
I bought a subwoofer with a 12 inch driver 20 years ago, thankfully. When I looked at the newer subwoofers the speaker manufacturer told me that he gets many comments stating that the fullness and rumble ability of modern day subwoofers have been substantially diminished, and he agreed. Isn’t this what subwoofers are all about. Why would I need a subwoofer for better define the lower base area. Fortunately I bought very nice main speakers which had a range spec down to 20 Hz and the bass driver size is 8 inches but I had to pay more to get this larger size.
Why do people put up with this? Put larger bass drivers in Main speakers and then you won’t have as many people complaining about Poor bass quality. Doesn’t this make sense?
@jumia thanks. I guess that is some kind of accomplishment? 🤔
In any case, I made some very significant upgrades to my streaming setup this weekend so that’s some form of real progress. Pure coincidence! https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/shootout-roon-versus-plex-qobuz-versus-tidal-who-won |
Omg, I can’t believe how people are rationalizing the use of subwoofers when their main speakers are not adequate to do a good job with bass. Removing bass frequencies from the main speakers to allow them to perform better buy shifting burden over to subwoofers is crazy talk. It just means the main speakers are not doing what they should be doing. Maybe the Tweeter, mid range, and the various bass drivers should all have their separate cabinets, kind of like what Wilson does. And then maybe with all these individual cabinets we can better place them throughout the room. And go absolutely nutty in the process. All this because bass drivers are getting smaller and somehow like frogs in warming water no one seems to notice how main speakers are becoming more and more inadequate to do what they need to do. We want more bass and maybe the Recording just doesn’t have it to offer so we attempt to embellish it. From time to time certain recordings, moreso from the more recent recordings have all kinds of bass emphasis inserted into the music by sound engineers. So like everything else in this world the consumer no longer is in control, with a good example being the decline Of main speaker bass quality. Of course you can solve this problem by paying a ton of money but you shouldn’t have to. |
There are advantages to having the low frequencies reproduced by multiple subwoofers. Using the appropriate processing and placement they can cancel room modes, providing a tighter and more accurate bass response over a larger listening area. I have found that off-loading the low frequencies a multi-sub system can improve both the frequency and transient response, particularly in rooms with strong modal energy. |
I experimented with Rel subwoofers. Purchased two Carbon Specials to pair with my B&W 802 D2 speakers and my Gryphon Diablo 300 amp. Bought the upgraded hi-level “Blueline” cables too. I know many, many trusted audiophiles love these subs and they can work well. But my experience was different. What I found was: 1) While the bass was excellent it didn’t provide the effect that was expecting. I was expecting a bigger richer sound, which is not what I got. I expected bass guitar solos to stand out more and be more like a live experience. The frequencies that were boosted (when crossover and level were adjusted correctly) were lower than what would have made the sound richer. So yes you could feel the bass more, but the notes weren’t bigger or richer in any way (which in retrospect may not have been a good thing anyways) And, 2) While I can see how people say subs can improve the mids (they did in some ways), I couldn’t get the subs adjusted such that the vocals were perfectly focused. My crossovers were set at 3 clicks and the level set at 5 clicks at the best sounding setting I could find (I tried everything). And I tried everything I possibly could with positioning. Some positions were better but I just couldn’t get vocals to snap into place and be natural. I had marks on the floor and I was at the point of making less than 1cm adjustments to the position or toe-in. I spent the entire month trying to get things right, and failed. Returned them within my 30 day window and used the funds to go down the digital rabbit hole, which I’m entirely enjoying (see my MU1 thread). Never looked back and am somewhat relieved as my system just looks better too without the two subs on the outsides of my speakers. Two things could have been a factor in the subs not working out: my room, and also my system is extremely revealing. This isn’t a good thing for all folks and can be a double edged sword. I can make the slightest adjustments and the effects are blatantly obvious to anyone. So things can be far more difficult to set up for me to ensure everything is right. But I simply couldn’t get there with the Rel’s, despite the fact that I know they make exceptional subs. I’m now not even concerned with bass, although I could use some more in my large room. Just not missing it though.
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@emergingsoul i am not sure which speakers you are listening to, but the size of the drivers are not everything, and the larger the driver the harder it is to drive and control. You can achieve higher degree of control and make the speaker more acceptable to larger range of electronics by using things like iso baric set ups, downfiring woofer, etc. Maybe it would be better if you mention a few examples and we can discuss those specific examples with contrasting solutions? |
