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Happy Accident

I've always read that the distance between the speakers should (more or less) equal the distance from each speaker to the listening chair. 

Our system is in the living room and due to furniture location, I'm guessing the  former distance has always been about 10% less than the latter (math is not my strong point).  Experimenting with toe-in has resulted in either a strong center image with a narrower sound-stage or vice versa. I've assumed the only way to improve matters would be to move my listening chair forward or the speakers further apart, neither of which is possible.  

But, as my wife will tell you, audio brings out my OCD tendencies. A couple days ago, I was once again messing around and tried toeing-in the speakers so their focus converged about 18 inches behind my head. This meant that the distance between speakers was, as always, 9 feet and the new distance between drivers and their point of convergence was 12 feet. 

As a result, the sound-stage now extends significantly beyond the speakers on each side without the center image collapsing. Actually, it's harder to detect a "center image", as the "image" spreads right across the sound-stage. The sound-stage is also deeper and resolution and bass actually seem to have improved. The point of convergence is only inches in front of a large, Craftsman style book-case with the typical "lattice" design of glass and oak. The speakers flank a slate hearth. 

Lacking the sort of experience/knowledge that might explain why "breaking the rules" has paid off to such an extent, this scenario falls into the category of "happy accident". I can only guess that it must have something to do with the room. 

Perhaps wiser individuals could offer a more scientific explanation... 

 

 

stuartk
stuartk OP
2,348 posts
 

@roxy54 

"Experimentation yields better results than formulas because of the many variables"

Clearly!   

newbee
4,751 posts
 

The last time I repositioned my speakers I had a really big surprise, one that was counterintuitive. Previously I had my speakers about six feet from the wall behind them, about 9 ft apart and 10 1/2 feet from my 'ears'.  Toed in about 10 degrees. A little too airy but excellent overall imaging image. I'd been very happy with that set up for years (I've used this room for over 30 years now). Then one day I got bored :-)

I moved my speakers back to 4 ft off the wall, moved my 'ears' forward until I was about 10 ft from the speaker and pointed the speaker straight ahead. The net result was a very solid image latterly across the stage, side wall to side wall. Great upper bass/lower mid range integration with a bit of warmth. Only down side was a loss of tiny bit of depth of image.   Now my preferred placement of my speakers in this room. Whodaguessed!

12many
221 posts
 

Crazy right.  I sit further back from my speakers then the distance between them and have found the best soundstage when I don't have much toe in in the speaker.  Really depends on the speaker and room.  I was surprised how much a few changes will adjust the soundstage.  

antialiased's avatar
antialiased
40 posts
 

The mid-high frequencies are directional thus…

Typically pointing the tweeters so they converge 1-2 ft. behind your head is best for soundstage width and depth. The more convergence distance you add the more the staging begin to become unglued.

Converging too far in front and the stage narrows as you're physically introducing more stereo cross feed.

Converged right at the head and the treble can become a bit edgy and forward.

These have been my general observations tweaking the triangle for best stereo imaging.

stuartk OP
2,348 posts
 

@antialiased 

I can't help but wonder how many music enthusiasts, having followed the conventional "equalteral triangle" wisdom, are (unknowingly) falling short of maximizing their listening enjoyment.

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