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What is "immersiveness" in audio experience ?

I experienced immersiveness 2 times , one with headphone and one with my acoutic room/speakers...
 
I will define acoustically "immersiveness as a rightful balanced ratio between the "sound source" perceived factor (ASW) and the "listener envelopment" felt factor (LV) , this ratio( ASW/LV ) implicate also that the timbre experience is right to begin with , that the distortion rate is low already and that these two factors are already settled, then if imaging is optimally differentiated and the soundstage dimensions may VARY according to each album recording situation and is not fixed once for all ... If each sound sources own his own volume in space and is not reduced to be a small surface,which i called the holographical factor then Immersiveness conditions are there...
 
I will not for now enter in these acoustic detailed explanation as i experienced them concretely, i used these precise acoustic words in the context of my experiments and experience...In my room or with my headphone...I am not an acoustician... Only someone who want top high quality experience for the least money...If money was not a problem i would had never study and work without end which so much time investment  with acoustic experiments and listening experiments... Luckily i had no money... 😊
 
I will now give a more subjective definition of "immersiveness" :
 
In any activity, when by repetition, learning,meditation, optimal set  conditions, forgetting everything else, we go through the ACT of perception or through the GESTURE as fluid with pure grace , forgetting the ego desire, fears, and hopes , ONE with the experience, in the ectasy of presence without being located in or out, here or there,this is "immersiveness...
 
I experienced it when the sound was good at the end of a long process, finally, one time after my speakers/room where completed and under acoustic control; one time with a well designed headphone, after 6 months of optimization experiments...
 
Now I forgot "sound" each time i listen music ...Only music matter ... And there is no more the necessary  habit who kill gradually  the first marvellous impressions ever... Each time is a new "first time" with any albums, and no upgrade appear meaningfull, even if for sure improved upgrading is always possible for the better... But when you are more than happy, "better gear " keep his meaning but lost his appeal...
 
I discovered that when i was "fatigued" with my music in the past , it was not so much the habitual and repetition of the same  music  the problem, but the "sound" defects which was so bad and  my focus on sound improvement so big it troubled and destructed the beginning of  my perceptive immersion in music...
 
Now any album is an acoustic and musical miracle and we cannot be used to miracles anymore than we cannot be used to true love ...
 
For sure what i said has a meaning for normal life day to day...
 
 If you live in a concentration camp , a bad recording sound of a Mozart piano concerto will put you in ectasy, nevermind the "sound"....
 
Then we audiophiles   we ask for something "more" than just music as usual...
It is not because we prefer good sound to good music, it is because we love music too much and felt very deep his impact, especially if the soundfield is optimal....
 
 

 

 

128x128mahgister
mahgister's avatar
mahgister OP
12,555 posts
 

The relation between music and sound remind me of the metaphor between day to day consciousness and awakening through the revelation of meaning becoming ONE with  the gesture of listening...

Acoustic gesture ( listening)  can be flowing as Tai chi...

mahgister's avatar
mahgister OP
12,555 posts
 

I will now tell a tale , a true story, about the power of music...

Stalin killed probably most people in the earth history with Mao...

He treated his family the same way he treated stanger and kill them or abandon them...

In this "beast" humanity is there too, but so deep down, no event could awake it...

But through history we know of one event which awake him to "meaning" ...To the presence of "meaning"...

 

 

 

Maria Yudina played a Mozart concerto one time for the radio when Stalin was listening... Stalin loved it so much he ordered to have the vinyl album right now...Now one dare to say no to Stalin ... The concert was not recorded but a live one only ... Then in the night Yudina played it a second time for the engineers to record it at fearful speed, changing even of maestro, because the first one was sick by fear... And guess what? After listening in ectasy the album so speedily made in urgency , Stalin offered big amount of money to Yudina... One of the greatest pianist of all time, and a completely fearless woman because of his absolute faith, she declined the money for herself but accept it for his church ONLY, knowing that Stalin emprisonned popes and destructed as many hundred of churches as possible in all Russia... Think about that : she then refuse the money for himself, and adding to the insult said why : to give it to the church, even if she lived in abject poverty and said to the dictator that she will pray God for his crimes instead... Wow!

Textually i quote from a video : "Thank you for your aid. I will pray day and night and ask the Great Lord to forgive you your great sins. The Lord is merciful and He will forgive you".

Extraordinarily, Stalin did not put her on execution or on Solovki island in the artic circle, as he did for EVERYONE else who dare to accuse him even all those who do not go with him without any reserve ... No one ever say anything about God being in command over him... Even Shostakovitch was sleeping waiting death with a suitcase ready each night, and never dare to say a negative word against Stalin till Stalin death, as Yudina the fearless pianist said it loud to Stalin in his face on telephone line...

Guess what ? Some 10 years after Stalin was discovered after 2 days alone in his room dying alone from a long agonising illness, because everybody feared him too much to dare to open the door without permission to see if everything was all right , especially uninvited doctors...On his table near his bed some vinyl album was found turning for hours or all day making the recognizing noise "click" without had been stop by no one for hours and hours after Stalin death : it was the Mozart same album, a unique album with only one copy the concerto no 23 especially recorded in one night for him by Yudina who played it two times in a row one in the evening and one in the night......

Stalin the beast knowing that his death was near listened to one of the rare meaningful experience in his life, pure emotion driven by light, the Mozart adagio is no more a sound experience here, but only meaning, than the question of "interpretation value" about Yudina playing lost all meaning... Yudina cannot be faulted because she forgot long ago how to play "well" ti impress people, she always played as if she pray, dying to go to the light...

Imagine the unmovable bravery of this woman... And in Russian pianist school she is beside, not under, Neuhaus, Sofronitsky, Scriabin, and the others giants ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdJtR6HNRQ4

hilde45's avatar
hilde45
4,784 posts
 

If you will permit me to comment on something delicate. This is just my opinion and maybe I am wrong but...this is a lot to take in.

If you want to start a discussion, I suggest shorter posts with a clear focus or two and a question. Then, let other people add their comments before you comment further.

If you just want to use Audiogon as a place to publish your thoughts, you can do that, but you won't likely get a lot of replies. 

Again, just my experience.

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