@ricco275 @elliottbnewcombjr is exactly right. In order for any speaker to sound decent at low volume the bass and treble need to be boosted. Older preamps had loudness compensation filters for this very reason. You can use tone controls to do this but best is to have a digital preamp you can program with your own loudness compensation curve into a preset that you can select when you are listening at low levels. At high levels you want to roll the treble off. No speaker that sounds correct at normal listening levels is going to sound correct at very low levels. You Avalons are fine. Look at the Trinnov Amethyst, The Anthem STR and the DEQX Pre 4. These are all full function digital preamps that allow you to do these special things and a lot more.
High end speakers at low volume
After having got accustomed to my new Vitus RI-101 mk II, I came to the conclusion that I need to improve my system's performance at low volume to enjoy music more.
Current sources: LinnLP12, Holo Spring 3 KTE, Nucleus.
Speakers: Avalon Idea.
Shunyata Delta NR V2 and Hemingway Indigo PC, Tara Labs Forté, TQ 2 Black diamond IC.
I am looking at replacing the Avalon Idea with speakers that could improve the low volume listening experience. I listen to 60 / 70db, I can afford to go up to 85db for very short time (neighbours).
I am also considering to purchase a Loki Max which I understood being quite a neutral EQ unit.
I have selected a few speakers which should match my musical taste based on what I have read:
- YG Carmel 2
- Wilson Sabrina X
- Vandersteen treo ct
- TAD ME1
I don't have the chance to listen to them except the TAD ME1 which I have enjoyed very much but not in my apartment.
Budget max $15k new or used.
I am looking for speakers sounding musical, with wide soundstage, not cold, detailed yet not analytical.
I mostly listen to classic rock, blues and jazz.
The system sits at the end of the long wall in a living room measuring 33x13ft, listening position 8ft from the speakers.
Unfortunately I have to face a tough WAF putting several limits:
- speakers must have a clean design, not black, not too hifi looking... and not too big
- distance from the wall behind the speakers 25cm
I don't mind changing amplifier if it will be necessary to match the next speakers.
I haven't found a preamp that I could consider a good candidate except a very expensive CSport featuring a loudness button which works very well (tested at Ana Mighty Sound).
I would much appreciate some advice from who knows well the above speakers or who had similar needs.
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You have the right aswers....low level sound quality and efficiency are not related. Sound Quality at low level is related to how low the driver distortion is and the front end quality. ATC has very low driver distortion and sounds quite good at low level, which is a selling point most dealers comment on. Their passives are around 1w/1m 86 to 88dB SPL. A speaker designer can optimize his drivers and design for more bass but gives up some efficiency as a penalty.
Brad |
@mijostyn these are great info! I believe tone control is key for low volume listening and I’m sure it will be more effective with high efficiency speakers. My Avalon are alright but not great in terms of details, clarity, imaging, sound stage. They sound nice and are forgiving. That’s why with the little McIntosh MA5300 I was very happy. When plugged to a much more demanding and resolving amp like the Vitus all the limitations came out. Maybe with one of the components you mentioned I could be fine with a pair of Sabrina X, but still doubting how much details they can express at low volume. And anyway whatever we add in the chain is a possible filter or source of noise. I’m intrigued by the Anthem as I know it is quite good as an amp per se. Or the Schiit Loki max as a pure EQ. |
@ricco275 You would be surprised. Once you correct the frequency response for low level listening all the details will come out. I am not a fan of the Loki. If price is an issue the MiniDSP SHD is the way to go. The Anthem STR Preamp is even better , the Trinnov Amethyst better still and the best is the DEQX Pre 4. These are preamps so you you would need an amp to match. Given that you like to listen at low levels I think the Pass Labs XA 25.8 would be perfect. |
I think the basic tonal quality of the speaker has a lot to o with how it might sound at a lower volume. For me, highly accurate, analytical, or 'resolving' speakers lose even more body as they are turned down. +1 Sonus Faber, Rockport, Joseph, et al. An amp can have a lot to do with low level body and resolution. I moved from a W4S STI-1000 huge Cl D integrated to an Odyssey Audio Kismet stereo amp a month ago and the microdynamics and detail I now hear are even more than I thought possible at 65-70 dB listening when reading. It draws me in. Finding speakers amp that sound nice at 60-70db with no equalization in the audio chain will mean that same set up will probably be unusable at real volumes. You'll have to pick if EQ is a no-no. So, love or hate DSP, I will say that the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 I use for room correction, and some minimal eq lowering, has made the sound of my two-channel system very audibly better. I don't think folks understand how low, flat bass (non-room-lumpy bass) can sound so stunning when controlled. PLUS the unit has the equivalent of a loudness control for both bass and treble curves easily used on the fly. The speakers in our room, Raidho D2s sound clear as bell, and luscious at 65dB with bass that'll stun you despite how quiet it seems. I vote at the very least for a loudness control, and at the very best, one of the high-end DEQX units that I've lusted after. It could be tricky otherwise unless you're willing to give up the best sound at one end of the volume chart (low or not low). Good luck. Keep asking and researching.
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