2. amps-preamps
  3. 185255-183507

Weak Link in Vinyl Playback

Hi Everyone,

I’m looking for some input on a weak link in my system, mostly in regards to my vinyl playback chain in a 12’x11’ room.

I currently have a Technics SL-1700 MK1 with an AT-VM95ML cartridge. The turntable is connected to an iFi Zen Phono. The phono is connected to a Schiit Saga S via 3 ft. Blue Jeans BJC LC-1 cable, and the Saga runs to a single Schiit Vidar by the another set of the same cable. The Vidar is connected to Elac Debut B6.2’s via 10 ft. Belden 50000UE cable (as an aside, my digital path is Pro Ject S2 Pre Box Digital connected by the same 3ft. interconnects to the Saga>Vidar>speakers). I’ve connected a sub previously (a Martin Logan Grotto I that I inherited) to the Saga in the past, but am currently running without it.

My concern is that while the digital path sounds full to me, at least as much as can be expected, the vinyl path sounds a bit thin and weak. I guess I’d describe it as kind of lacking energy. My gut tells me the Saga S having 0 gain in both the passive and buffer mode (I run it in passive mode because it sounds more lifelike to me but I’ve used the buffer in the past as well) is the reason for this, but I’m not positive. I’m ready to upgrade to the Freya S if that’s the solution, but I didn’t want to start throwing money at a problem without really narrowing it down first. The Zen phono is set to MM and gain 1, which should be correct for my cartridge, the interconnects aren’t overly long (the speaker cable being 10’ isn’t too big a deal, I think?), the Vidar should be driving my inefficient speakers with no issue and judging by the digital path, it is. 

I’m hoping someone here can weigh in on what would make the biggest positive impact in my listening and give me the oomph I think I’m missing. For what it’s worth, I plan on doing some room treatment down the road, but that’s not what I’m looking for advice on at the moment.


Thanks!

owl9113
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,167 posts
 

@owl9113 Your cartridge is a high output MM type. This type of cartridge needs to be loaded correctly to prevent very high audio frequency or ultrasonic resonance. If in the audio band, which seems to be the case here, the resonance will act like a tone control, boosting the extreme highs. Your ear will thus perceive this as a bit dry- by reducing the highs, the ear will seem to pick up on the lows better.

So before you do anything else I recommend looking into loading your cartridge correctly. The inductance of your cartridge is 550mH. I don't know the capacitance of your phono cables, but they play a role in this (when inductance and capacitance are in parallel as you have in this situation, you get a resonance). So you need to find that out and then drop the numbers into this calculator:

http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

I would read that whole page if I were you.

If the stylus is older than 4 years, its suspension may be perished. If that happens the cartridge can sound dry. So replacing the stylus is worth looking into as well.

owl9113 OP
35 posts
 

@atmasphere This is all news to me as I'm still learning a lot of this stuff. If I understand correctly, adjusting the load is something that's done on the phono stage, and it looks like the iFi Zen that I'm using has a fixed load at 47K Ohms. Am I referring to the same thing you are?

FYI, the cartridge is only a year old and well-cared for.

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,167 posts
 

it looks like the iFi Zen that I'm using has a fixed load at 47K Ohms. Am I referring to the same thing you are?

@owl9113 You are. Cartridge loading is one of the more arcane issues of LP playback and it can have a big effect on MM cartridges! Its worth doing. A phono preamp manufacturer is being remiss if this issue is not addressed. In addition to tonal balance problems, the resonance can cause ticks and pops that sound like they are on the LP surface if the phono section has poor high frequency overload margins! Loading the cartridge eliminates that issue- so it can reduce ticks and pops depending on the design of the phono section.

FWIW its far easier to design a tube phono section that has good overload margins than it is solid state.

Some phono sections will have an extra RCA jack which is intended for loading purposes. Sometimes its handled by DIP switches internally. But there should always be some sort of provision, otherwise its impossible to get all the performance out of the cartridge and the phono section together!

 

owl9113 OP
35 posts
 

@atmasphere so, according to What Hi-Fi my phono does feature cartridge adjustment. Could it be that they're considering the ability to select between different gain levels for different cartridge types as such? Here's the quote from the manual: 

1. corresponds to MM

2. corresponds to MC HIGH

3. corresponds to MC LOW

4. corresponds to MC V-LOW

(>2mV) (≤2mV) (≤0.5mV) (≤0.25mV)

The phono allows you to choose cartridge type and gain level independently, but others online advise against choosing non-cartridge specified gain levels (the 1-4 I quoted are what you can toggle the switch between).

vonhelmholtz
911 posts
 

Maintaining both digital and analog systems is quite costly. You have some inexpensive options suggested above, but before spending more on the analog side, consider how such expenditures might improve your digital. I say this because getting analog right can be an unexpectedly expensive endeavor.

More to discover