Thoughts About Turntable Upgrades


I hope everyone is having a good Saturday. I'm sitting here listening to CDs because at the moment my digital playback is simply better than my turntable. The Audio Mirror Tubadour DAC that I purchased a few months ago is simply outstanding when paired with my old Cary 308. This leads to my questions/musings about turntable upgrades. 

I got back into vinyl a few years ago and purchased the Rega P3 with a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2 preamp as a starter kit. I upgraded the cart to a Denon 301 II, which was big improvement for me. Looking forward, I'm leaning heavily towards a Sota Sapphire. I want a US made table only because I'm interested in having a US based system. The Sota seems like a good fit because I value sound that is more laid-back and I'm looking for a table that will emphasize warmth, soundstage, presence, solidity. That's the best I can offer in verbally describing my goal. I'm frankly looking for something that will top the Tubadour experience! The Rega is good, but after a few albums my ears are a bit exhausted.

Here are my questions:

Do y'all have any thoughts on my leaning towards Sota? Any other recommendations? Is there any reason to start with a new preamp rather than a new turntable? If so, what are your recommendations? 

I'm interested in your responses to these questions, but also any other suggestions as well. Let me have it! 

 

rblondeau

What I'd say is that if you have a truly great sounding digital front end, that it will be expensive to get your analog side sounding as good. The other side of that though is that if you take the time and make the investment your analog front end will bring you hours of enjoyment that surpass the digital. Obviously, this is my opinion.

The work that's needed is figuring out the the right components. You've chosen a fine turntable. What arm will you put on in? This and the cartridge will have as much or more effect on the sound than the table itself. Additionally, you'll need to step up the phono stage. I have a Pro-ject tube box in my second system in my mountain cabin. It's solid for a mid grade analog front end but when I went all the way I ended up spending 5k on a used tubed phono stage from Rogers High Fidelity. If you take the time and get the right pieces. You'll be extremely happy. 

I used my sense of what sounded musical to upgrade my system. Your system is a great starter system, but if you start to expose yourself to really good systems, will you be interested in improving your system? If so, do you want to split your money between the digital and analog components? I used my analog to desire a better digital and the digital to want a better analog. The money went in increments, but my analog cost far more than the digital and in the end I could have purchased an exotic sports car, or sent one child to Stanford. I will say that I enjoy the vinyl more than the digital, but I listen to the digital more than the analog since it is just a matter of flipping on a switch and opening my iPad. The analog is always a planned listening time. Upgrade your system, but I suggest that you go out and listen to some great systems and make sure that you know what you want.  I don’t mean making sure that you know what equipment you want, but rather to make sure you know what musical presentation you want.  In order to get that sound, you will need to upgrade everything about your system and your room, but at least you can move one item at a time towards that sound.

I spent some serious seat-time with a Rega P3 outfitted with an Ortofon Blue 2M. played, first, through the phono stage of a McIntosh MA5200 and then, through the phono stage of a Luxman L-550XII, using Focal Aria 536 speakers and clean, well recorded vinyl. That experience was about as far from fatiguing on the ears as possible!

Keep in mind that Rega's TT design and engineering philosophy is predicated upon producing very light weight, low mass TTs with very stiff bracing. As such, take heed of what pindac is saying here. All TTs should be placed on rock steady, isolated surfaces; Rega more than most.

I'm not familiar with the phono stage or the cart you are presently using. If I had to guess, which I'm loath to do because I much prefer speaking from personal empirical experience, I'd say one or the pairing of both of them is the likely the culprit for the ear fatigue. Speakers are part of the pairing equation, as well, as these are the business end of every system. Everybody has to play nice together.

After further research into my TT quest, I eventually whittled down my choices to a Rega P6 outfitted with an Ortofon Black 2M and MoFi Ultradeck with MastertTacker. I went with the Mofi Ultradeck+M and couldn't be more pleased. If you're interested, there's a full review of it in Stereophile (and other places, of course) that, as I recall, Herb Reichart wrote several years ago. Basically, he came to the conclusion, at that time, that the Mofi Ultradecks+M was the best he'd heard under 5K. I'm sure SOTA is an excellent TT. I've just never heard one.

I'm not familiar with the DAC you are using. All I can say in this realm is that I've never heard any digital set-up, even those approaching 6 figures, that my ears preferred over a good, comparable vinyl set-up. This debate over whether digital systems are better than comparable vinyl systems is fast becoming the replacement debate for whether multi-thousand-dollar cables & connectors "sound better" than those costing much less. Sure, digital is much easier, much more convenient and doesn't require the care and attention that vinyl does (i.e.  clean records). However, in those direct, structured and controlled A/B shoot-outs that I've done with digital vs. vinyl, even digital systems costing much more than vinyl, I know what my ears like. Maybe it's all neuroaudiological. In the end, your ears will know that they like, as well. Listen & demo as much stuff as you can and let YOU'RE EARS be the judge.

@oldaudiophile

There are some long time members with high end systems that say that their digital is as pleasing as their analog. I don’t think that they claim that they are the same in every way and I’m pretty sure that all is source dependent. My system was not put together with the same level of expertise and my analog still bests my digital, but the digital was a better value and my digital sounds analog and quite musical to my ears.
I wish that more of the members would post their system in virtual system.

OP,

 

Congratulations on your digital end. It is still difficult to get digital to exceed vinyl in the price category you are in even today. Great work!

A Soto Saphire is a good choice. Also you can look at VIP. By getting a table in the $5K range you can be assured of a very large jump in performance. To get the full value you will probably need to upgrade you Phonostage. My rule of thumb is to spend as much on the Phonostage as the turntable. I have upgraded many times and a great (I like Audio Research) Phonostage is required.

If you do this, you are in for a real treat. But make sure this is what you want. If your vinyl stomps the sound quality of your digital end… well you could have invested that money in your digital / system and elevated it even more. It’s just a question of dilution. The digital end is the future… vinyl the past. If you love playing with vinyl… great, go for it.