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The perfect satellite/subwoofer system ...

...is essentially a 4-way system and preferably fully active.

Bear with me.

The original satellite/subwoofer systems were often 2-way satellites with a subwoofer, or a 3-way system. This caused a number of problems which I think have overall contributed negatively to their acceptance in the modern day audio world. Either the satellites were too small, and had a high crossover to the subwoofer or they used larger mid-woofers and then the the tweeter crossover was too low, again limiting the dynamic range of the system as a whole. 

A perfect satellite/subwoofer system has to have lots of dynamic range in the satellite and the subwoofer along with excellent vertical and horizontal dispersion. The 2-way + sub is a compromise.

Also, by going active we can achieve something we almost never see in passive speakers:

Perfect 4th order filters.

That gives us excellent vertical and horizontal dispersion (assuming the right size drivers).

The solution is, perhaps, using a 3-way satellite system with 4th order (electro + acoustical) filters, and an expected -3 dB point of ~ 80 Hz (the THX standard). As part of this equation it also means the 3-way ends in an 8 or 10" woofer, which being bandwidth limited is going to have excess dynamic range.

Yes, I’m bored, and yes I’m hoping to take some wind out of the discussion about science vs. A’gon. :D

erik_squires
kota1
2,706 posts
 

Hey Erik, I have both an active sub/sat setup and a passive one. I found the solution to be the room correction you use to integrate them. You can get results that sound much more expensive than the cost of the system. For example a pair of Paradigm PW 600 are active, have a sub out, and also have ARC room correction:

https://www.paradigm.com/en/wireless/pw-600

match them up with a sub and you will be a happy camper. All you need is to download the Play-Fi app to your phone and you are jamming. If you want to connect a source go for it.

erik_squires OP
16,013 posts
 

Hey Kota1,

 

I just tried Anthem Room correction and you know, I was not very impressed. It’s a major reason why I’m making a new active center, so I can disable the receiver's ARC and use my own EQ settings.

It’s not immersive or transparent enough compared to what I could achieve when I had 100% control.

My point was,in any event, about what we know we can’t fix with ARC:

  • Dynamic range
  • Dispersion
  • Distortion

These are all heavily influenced by the physics of driver sizes. The thing we really can use ARC for, subwoofer integration, was not on my list.

Also, having now lived with the results of Anthem Room Correction and tried it, I disagree with the philosophy of ARC which insists on controlling the measurement points. As someone involved in actual theater installations and calibrations, I think that the methodology of multiple measurement points is best saved for larger rooms, and find myself agreeing with a quote from a review of the Bryston HT processor that the goals are ill suited for home listening.

I’m not anti-DSP at all, I’m thinking the way Anthem conceived it’s ARC is not working for me in my room, and now that I understand it better I can see why.

m-db's avatar
m-db
969 posts
 

Being a hack with only a pair of dated Mackie powered PA speakers as my only active speaker reference, any taking of wind is out.

I do believe a much finer level of subwoofer integration has been easily obtainable for well over a decade. Like most aspects of this hobby if you haven't heard it you simply can't know whats missing. More importantly, just how simply it is to use.   

When my push pull tube amplified mains were down I repositioned my HT two-way Triangle Comet's in their stead, leaving the two Velodyne DD-12 Plus subs in the rooms Crawl established asymmetrical bass modes.

After choosing the laptop or TV, plugging in the mic and loading the Sweep Tone CD I ran the twenty minute Plus Auto EQ through the Triangles and the subs to compensate for the speaker change. To better compensate the subs to the Triangles basic low frequency presentation I play a self recorded file of my Double Basses and drums through the Triangles and the subs.

To further tweak to my taste I used the manual drag and drop of the Velodyne Plus Frequency Response and Parameters Screen. I slightly altered by ear the Q (bandwidth) Parametric Filter within the 40-50Hz and the 50-63Hz bands which also changes the slopes on both sides of the filters. These changes are easily audible to anybody when playing a very familiar recording. Saved to memory in any of the six customizable presets while the mains remain in the analog domain. That's it.

While these adjustments are covered on pg. 10-11 in the Velodyne User Interface Manual they neglected the how to and what to listen for. Even though music fans don't have that you-are-there post production experience of their favorite recording, subjective satisfaction can easily be accomplished. Without trial and error subwoofer room positioning, manufacturers predetermined auto only equalization or a third party download and accessories. 

Most, if not all the professional periodical reviews also neglected to get past the Plus' very effective, now over twelve year old system and room Auto EQ optimizing feature. Sadly for the home audio community, during Velodyne's time remaining the manufacturer's priorities took a dramatic turn. 

http://velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/digitaldriveplus/DD+Manual.pdf https://www.velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/digitaldriveplus/DD+UserInterfaceManual.pd

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