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Amplifier considerations, PrmaLuna EVO 400 versus ARC Reference 160 S. Is ARC worth it?

Greetings all. I own a pair of PrimaLuna EVO 400’s paired with an a first generation ARC Ref 6 and Ref 3 Phono. This was done because I could not afford a pair of 160 M’s and wanted something to tie me over until I could afford them or another option came along. I have been taking a hard look at the Reference 160 S, However, the performance of the EVO 400 is so damn good. I am not sure I would gain anything. In fact, I would lose a lot of customizability and am not a fan of how the ARC amps are built with mounting the sockets for those big ass kT-150 onto the circuit board.

Here is an overview of how I set up the EVO 400’s. They are set up as Mono-bocks. and retubed with KT-150s. The preamp section are retubed with BLACK SABLE JJ ECC82 / 12AU7. A less colored and cleaner sounding tube over the stock Chinese made one. With this configuration I get a sonic signature that has a bit of bite on the top and tight controlled bass that is snappy and authoritative. Specifications change from 140 watts to 192 watts. The music I listen to is a lot of Classical, Gothic Metal, Rock, Jazz, Blues, Pop, and EDM. A lot of my favorite recording are bass heavy with heavy dynamics. Speaker used are 4 Ohm - 95 db efficient - with a frequency response of 18HZ-30KHZ.

The 160s I am considering is $24K has power rating of 140 watts. It is a cleaner sounding amp that does not have much voicing. Offering a more accurate presentation, with more inner detail. That may prove to have better sysnergy with the ARC gear I already own. Also, the case work and overall appearance of the product is top notch. Hence the interest in it.,

Contrasted to PL what I lose is... some musicality, the EVO 400 has more richness in the mids and vocals are more pronounced and have a greater sense of presence within the listening room. Again, the tube sockets are bolted onto the chassis. They do not use a cooling assist fan. I have the advantage of a Monoblock solution, that is easier to handle weight wise and offers better isolation of the signal between the two channels.

Where the PL Cheaps out, is the finish and the balanced inputs. I am not a fan of the battleship grey paint and hodgepodge just slapped together Chi-Fi look that the components have. Nor do I like the cheap ass balanced connectors they use. There is a big difference in quality between them and the ones on my Ref 6.

Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

Many thanks for your time and trouble.

walkertm
jetter
3,033 posts
 

There’s a good chance that you will keep them for the long term and every time you fire up your system you will look at them and smile.

Yes, but then again you may kick yourself for not waiting to buy the new products that will inevitably be introduced by the AR Tube Audio Corporation.

 

marantz33's avatar
marantz33
35 posts
 

People like what they like and I am loathe to question anyone else's judgment or tastes. So against my better judgment here goes: until recently I owned a set of prima Luna prologue 6 monoblocks. I now own a Conrad Johnson premier 11a and a set of quicksilver mid mono. I also have a rogue audio metis Magnum pre amongst others. All are tube based and have blown a tube at one time or another. The prima Luna were clear and detailed but not very tube like at least not in the sense that I prefer. The CJ and the rogue audio as well as the Quicksilver especially are more to my taste. I have always wanted an arc amp but have read way too many posts where owners have had to send these amps back in for service because a tube blew and took out a resistor or other parts. If you own tube gear you know that it's just a matter of time before one blows..it is the nature of the beast. When I lost a tube on both the rogue audio and the primaluna the speakers let out an ungodly howl that caused me to sprint across the room while peeing myself just a little. I felt sick until I simply replaced the tubes and none of my gear was worse for wear. If I had owned Arc gear at the time I would have had to ship the amp back at Great expense and then wait months for the return after service, also at great expense. I always thought of Arc gear as I do Ferrari. Stunning to look at definitely some cachet to owning one and when properly tuned absolutely thrilling to drive. The flip side is that 36,000 miles on a Ferrari is considered high mileage and an engine  rebuild is eminent. This is why I own the gear that I do.. and drive a Porsche.

newbee
4,767 posts
 

Sound wise this is strictly a personal choice, take your pick. I like to fiddle with tone and tube changes so of these two I'd probably go for the PL's. When I last bought ARC amps the one question I did not ask was "what happens when you blow out a tube and cause a resistor to burn out." Can I repair it, can a local tech repair it, does it have to go back to ARC, and can I lift it and haul it around. Who will bias your tubes, etc. FWIW. 

fsonicsmith1
101 posts
 

If I had owned Arc gear at the time I would have had to ship the amp back at Great expense and then wait months for the return after service, also at great expense. I always thought of Arc gear as I do Ferrari. Stunning to look at definitely some cachet to owning one and when properly tuned absolutely thrilling to drive. The flip side is that 36,000 miles on a Ferrari is considered high mileage and an engine  rebuild is eminent. This is why I own the gear that I do.. and drive a Porsche.

There is another thread here somewhere in which I contributed on the issue of getting tubed gear repaired. The truth (a loaded word as the "truth" is often subjective and anecdotal and in this context regional too) is that most major metropolitan areas have musician-based amp repair shops. My city of Columbus OH does. It is amazing but true that a good guitar amp repair tech can make easy work of repairing an ARC amp if a schematic is provided. ARC will provide the schematic-don't let anyone tell you otherwise, particularly if you are the original owner. 

Guess what? Tube amps are far more easy to repair than solid state amps. Truth. Generally speaking. The vast majority of tube amps are built using fairly simple circuit designs. 

Someone up above said of Ayon;

land microprocessor controlled  for each tube ,, the others just average all tubes not accurate at all ,when you gets bad tube a led goes on ,you just replace that 1 tube hit a button and recalibrated the amp

I have no idea what a "land microprocessor" is, Mr. Google suggests it is a Land Grid Array unless this guy means a relay manufactured by Land Instruments but either way, this is the kind of thing that a tech can not fix. Only replace. 

Speaking of pride of ownership, my AmpsandSound Nautilus amp is not only built like a tank but it is built using a 60 year old circuit design with turrets. Talk about simple to repair!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUvCID72ylM

bolong
601 posts
 

Re: Primaluna Monobloc. I have an EVO 400 power amp which I have been running for about 6 months now and am considering adding another to monobloc. (The preamp is also an EVO400.)

My question is, did you listen to your system for any length of time in stereo mode? If so, what was the difference between the two modes?

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