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What is turntable “liveliness”.

I have listened to turntables for sixty years. I bought my first high end TT about thirty years… it was revelatory. I do not swap tables often. I do a huge amount of research and then stay with one for fifteen years or so. My most recent upgrade was from a VPI Aries (heavy mass) to a Linn LP12 (light weight, sprung)…very nearly the very top level. Could we please not turn this into a religious thing about Linn… mine is an outstanding TT which compares favorably with any other $45K analog leg (TT, cartridge, and Phonostage)

The term lively comes up in descriptions. One of the differences in character I noticed between the VPI and Linn… which I thought might be considered liveliness was to me a bit of what I perceived as the images very slightly jumping around… the kind of thing you would think of when you see films of “The Flash” maybe vibrating in place. While I found this gave me the feeling of the notes wanting to jump out at me, I found it a bit disconcerting. I attributed it to a relatively light weight rig, that is really good at rejecting low frequency vibrations (it is a sprung table… known to be lively sounding) up to a relatively high frequency… but beyond that not. Something a really heavy rig would not be effected by.

 

To test my theory, I had a Silent Running Ohio Class vibration platform constructed for my turntable. The image smear, as I called it disappeared. There is no smear and it has great solidity.

Is this attribute “liveliness”?

ghdprentice
karl_desch's avatar
karl_desch
426 posts
 

I believe Rega tables also get tagged with the "Lively" description.  Having listened extensively to a Rega P10 with a Lyra Atlas (recently updated to lambda), this means dynamics to me. A jump factor particularly in the midrange and upper frequencies as opposed to low end groove or bass line foundation. But like many audio terms, it is easier to hear than to describe. Also, I have not listened to a LP12 in too long so I could be totally off base here.

ossicle2brain's avatar
ossicle2brain
129 posts
 

Turntables have no sound. If they do there is something wrong with it. If the definition of "turntable" includes the tone arm and cartridge then yes. To be fair I think that is what the OP is talking about and I’m just being argumentative as usual.

Literally all a basic turntable does is spin a record at a steady enough 33 1/3 speed with low enough noise like rumble and hum. If it sounds lively it may be spinning faster. Unlikely but possible.

The placebo and expectation bias is very strong when listening to a fifty thousand dollar piece of engineering art.

 

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,195 posts
 

The only sound turntables make that I am aware of are distortion in the form of wow and flutter and noise in the form of rumble and hum .

Otherwise anything you hear off the source material at hand comes from the cartridge and how it interacts with the tonearm. That is a combo of signal noise and distortion that can vary as well.

 

Put that all together and some setups may be more resolving and dynamic which I suppose could result in what could be called “liveliness” if one chooses, But otherwise it is merely a subjective adjective applied to what one hears and could mean anything to anyone.  A good setup would tend to be more lively sounding I would say.  

 

lewm
13,025 posts
 

It's impossible to "prove" either side of this debate, because there is a subjective element that cannot be removed from the equation, although I don't know that intrinsic SQ differences among turntables (excluding the obvious differences among tonearm/cartridge pairings) that I and others hear could not be measured, if one knew what to measure.  As things stand, we can agree to disagree.

ghdprentice OP
6,965 posts
 

@mapman

Thank you. Yes, “may be more resolving and dynamic”. That sounds like the gist of the term. And something a little different than what I heard. Thank you for your thoughts on the subject, that is what I was eliciting.

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