How tall do you like your images?

willyht

Soundstage (left to right, right to left) is more important to me than the height of the imaging.

To me the accurately forward sound images are the most important. Listen to the original music. Almost recording engineers intend the vocal and mid-range on the center front with almost recordings. All audio systems in the world can’t do that like the original music. Their vocal/mid-range are all far back (and vague) behind speakers. It is not deeper sounds. They are just far back and unclear. Those problems comes in a set always. I know it because I found the solution for those problems. Only my Wavetouch audio accurately reproduces the vocal/mid-range in front as the recording engineer intended.

When the audio vocal/mid-r sounds forward like the original music, the sound-stage becomes 3D. Then sounds automatically become wider, higher, and deeper. And always musical. No more the sound or music argument.

Alex/Wavetouch

IMAGING: width/height/depth (my experiences)

1. setup must be correct (tweeter to seated ear height) & (toe-in for equal tweeter volume dispersion relative to the mids) & toe-in to protect the primary sounds from the reflections of floor/ceiling/side walls:

result is primarily horizontal imaging. phantom off center locations created by the speaker’s L/R relative volumes.

2. Then my mind creates a ’natural/normal sense of height, imagined height of players relative to speaker created horizontal phantom location.

seated ear height as the vertical center, everybody on the same floor height: i.e. Drummer imagined lower than bass player, piano height centered, bass player tallest. Horns higher than the Piano …..

OR, often, imagining relative to a typical stage height from decent orchestra seats: height of piano centered ’above’, all else relative to that ’starting/imagined’ height

3. Depth is created by a combination of mind and open space behind the speakers:

enhanced/limited by the actual amount of space behind the speaker to the rear reflected surface. The depth you perceive is based on your actual live listening experiences, i.e. you ‘know’ the depth of a small stage for a Jazz Trio; you ‘know’ the depth of stage for an orchestra (combined with standard placement of violins left; bass right; horns centered/behind; big drums and big horns rear row.

My experience, BTW, is that not all speakers like to be toed in at all, but compromises for the side walls is often needed.

Also, the ideal height for some speakers is below the tweeter axis.  B&W often does this, some do this by accident.  Ear at tweeter axis / height is a starting point, the sweet spot is often below the  tweeter.

@deep_333

check out this video on upmixing from audioholics

watched the video. not sure his up-mixing comments are relevant to my situation. he starts talking about using a multi-channel receiver or processor as a preamp. and his comments seem to assume everything is already digitized.

not a right or wrong kinda thing, just a different universe of system culture.

and his absolute focus is on sound staging, not musical refinement and tonal density or texture/timbral realism. it never comes up because it’s not his focus. OTOH my opinion is that sound staging is secondary to those aspects of musical touch.

he does not really "get" where i’m at, he needs to experience some different type systems that don’t start from his place to know how this can go. he is talking to a different crowd and set of priorities.

the listener needs to look at the media type they listen to, the quality of the sources, and the potential purity of their signal path before you can judge what to do with the level of purity they have. garbage in<->garbage out. what is at risk of losing with the approaches you are contemplating? i have much to lose. but that varies.

@erik_squires

Also, the ideal height for some speakers is below the tweeter axis. B&W often does this, some do this by accident. Ear at tweeter axis / height is a starting point, the sweet spot is often below the tweeter.

and proper toe in is relative to listening position. if you sit at the top of the equilateral triangle then image height based on toe in is one reality, but move your listening position slightly far field, or slightly near field, the image height will likely vary. and ideal toe in might change.

many listeners are not comfortable listening near field or even considering it, mostly due to too much direct sound in less than mature room acoustics, where there is just too much direct sound and reflective energy. but the near field is where the holographic fireworks live. in my large room, i sit in the near field with twin 7 foot tall, huge towers in my lap visually, yet the acoustics allow for a comfortable natural tonality and cohesive experience.

you have to work at near field acoustical comfort before you dismiss it, and be open to playing with toe in for ideal staging and height.