"forward' vs "laid back" speakers


Over the past few months I’ve auditioned a number of speakers, with a view—eventually—to replacing my current ones. I’m content with their overall presentation, but they are getting long in the tooth and I’ve also been hankering for a little more bass.

Models that I’ve been able to hear (as for many of us, there are geographical challenges) are, in no particular order, B&W CM10, Dynaudio Excite X38, Vandersteen Treo, Sonus Faber Venere 3.0, Devore Orangutan O/93, Dynaudio Focus 380, Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand Symphony Edition, Sonus Faber Liuto. Although not on my list, I also happened to hear along the way Totem Sttaf, Golden Ear Triton 2, Neat Classic Elite SX, and Vienna Acoustics Liszt.

It’s probably naïve of me to say this, but one thing that surprised me was how little my own listening impressions aligned with published reviews that I’d read of these speakers. Another thing that was a little surprising was my eventual ranking of them.

Two caveats in regard to the following observations: (1) de gustibus non est disputandum—these are purely my personal tastes and preferences (which seem to be in a minority); (2) all speakers were driven by highly competent and sometimes megabuck electronics, but I’m not going to get into every variable of the audition, otherwise this post will turn into a short novel.

The most salient characteristic (to me) is that the acoustic presentation of some of these speakers seemed quite forward (row D), whereas that of others was really quite laid back (row M). There was also, quite often, a second correlation between that forward presentation and a (relative) brightness in the treble. As far as I can tell, these features are often preferred and indeed seem to be aimed for in the voicing of many models during their development. To my ears, speakers in this category were the Treos, O/93s, and Veneres. Somewhere in the middle were the CM10s and the Liutos. A bit more laid back were the Dynaudios and the Vienna Acoustics.

I have to say that I like row M. I like the soundstage to start at the plane of the speakers’ drivers, and extend well behind them, with the speakers pulled well out into the room to achieve that sense of depth. And I don’t like bright.

The X38s, which I heard a while ago, were overall “polite”, and now I’m thinking they may not have been fully broken in. The Focus 380 sounded good but somehow a little homogenized or artificial; the timbre and the presentation were pleasant, but it was harder to forget that you were listening to a stereo system. The Baby Grands were a clear favorite among the models so far (only surpassed by the Liszts, as was to be expected). They were natural, relaxed, with all the characteristics I’ve been looking for, save that ultimate few hertz in bass extension.

I conclude from this that I am in a distinct minority. So be it. I haven’t been able to hear the VA Beethoven Concert Grands (that experience suggests should fit the bill), nor any models from Harbeth, Spendor, Silverline, Aerial, or Joseph Audio that I suspect—but cannot be sure—I might also like.

And so the search goes on; paradoxically, my experiences so far lead me to put little to no faith in reviews, but it’s only reviews (and on-line audio forums like this one) that allow me to construct a short-list of what to try to audition in the future.
128x128twoleftears
The Treos were driven by a Sim Moon 600i in a room on the largish size of medium.

What I meant by forward, in particular, was where the soundstage started. On that day the soundstage started several feet out in front of the plane of the drivers, so it felt like you were sitting verrry close. There was definitely depth to the soundstage, and there was definitely bass. It may have been a by-product of the set-up, who knows. The Dynaudio X38s, with all the other parameters exactly the same, sounded a good deal more distant, almost to a fault (not fully broken in?), but in general a bit more space between me and the start of the soundstage is an effect that I personally prefer.

Thanks for the recommendations. Second time Joseph Audio has been mentioned. Just wish there was a store within 3-4 hrs driving (one way!) that carried those three brands.
If you are buying used i would suggest you cut the budget in half and buy two sets of speakers . Listen to them and keep what you like . Then sell the other pair . Once sold use that money and buy another set . Repeat , Repeat ... Eventually you will find the one and have a lot of fun along the way. You will have to get over the fact that spending half of your budget does not necessarily mean you are compromising sound quality vs dollars spent. Same principal for all other components in the system . Living with crappy sound because you spent your whole budget on one piece that does not pan out sucks . Stack the odds in your favor and buy a few of each component .
"What I meant by forward, in particular, was where the soundstage started. On that day the soundstage started several feet out in front of the plane of the drivers, so it felt like you were sitting verrry close. There was definitely depth to the soundstage, and there was definitely bass. It may have been a by-product of the set-up, who knows."

That's the whole system working together and not just the speakers. Another thing worth mentioning is that the speakers may have been wired out of phase. Its very easy to mistake a phase issue with the underlying imaging qualities of the system as a whole. People working in audio stores make mistakes like this all the time. I'm not saying that this is definitely the case, but given your description of the imaging you experienced, something compels me to comment on phase.
I think you have a correct first impression of the vienna's though limited, just like the other speakers. Not everything but you can tell a lot (about tone and timbre and balance) by a quick listen even with sub optimal electronics and a bad set up to see if you want to go further.
Too many variables, IMO. My stereo sounds different just changing interconnects. Different rooms sound different also. Speakers not broken in, which some may have been and others not, makes a big difference too. My current speakers went from bright to dull to perfect once broken in. The bass came together and the soundstage got way wider too. I hadn't ever experienced such a dramatic change while a piece of equipment was breaking in. Speaker placement is another variable...

Interesting that is sounds like you prefer laid back, as do I, but the veneres to me sounded more forward, bright, thin, clear...

Was never a fan of Monitor Audio until now and thier Gold and Platinum lines sound great. You might like KEF also...