If you were serious about sound you would...


If your audiophile quest is to get the best sound then buy the best equipment used to make the recordings originally. One of the few things nearly every audiophile agrees about is that you can't make the signal better than the original. So:

Solid State Logic 2 channels preamp 5k$
Meyer Sound Bluehorn powered speakers 2x 140K$
Pro Tools MTRX system 10k$
Mac Studio Computer 8k$
Total about 170k$ 
How is it possible to get better sound than the best recording studio gear? 


 

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@mahgister Perfection in sound has nothing to do with this, I’m saying that the signal can’t be better (more accurate) than the original. There is a limit to the accuracy of the playback the limit is the quality of the equipment doing the original recording and mix.
 
 
Most misunderstanding in audio debate comes from acoustic and psycho-acoustic ignorance...The misunderstanding comes from the focus put on the price tag and on gear upgrades instead of the acoustic...
 
But the OP commit the same sin , claiming that if we are serious about sound we must buy the same piece of gear as the studio sound optimization tools...He focus here on some specific type of  gear as the  only one  possible SOURCE for " good sound"...
 
Which idea makes no sense at all , because the source of sound is not DSP nor the gear used to work with it, but first the original physical acoustic INFORMATION conditions in most music albums , especially jazz and classical... LIVE RECORDING and STUDIO RECORDING differ completely and mixing serve the recording process in classical and jazz not the reverse...
 
And the accuracy TRADE-OFF acoustic process of recording is not the studio process of mixing or optimizing which is a digital and DSP accuracy , nor the translation of these two conjugated process the same as the system/room physical acoustic accuracy conjugated with the psycho-acoustic accuracy..
 
What is accuracy? one thing is sure digital accuracy cannot define alone the complexities of physical and psycho acoustics accuracy and it is subordinated to it anyway ....
 
Then what is the source of sound ?
For the playing musician it is himself playing in some acoustic conditions, for the audio engineer it is himself modifying the recorded sound for the better or the worst, for the listener the source of the sound is his system room , for an acoustician the source of the sound experience is the psycho-physical process around the ears structure and the brain in some controlled or uncontrolled  room for a specific listener or for an average listener ...
The source of the music experience is ALL that together... Then proposing to buy the same gear as those picked by an arbitrarily chosen  studio engineer is preposterous claim as preposterous as throwing money on too costly gear...
 
I will let extremely processed sound albums out here....Most of us dont buy that anyway...
The processing studio works in classical is there to HELP the original timbre playing instruments translations from some chosen recording microphones positions and choices TRADES-OFF, the studio job is done to help this recording process not to modify it or change it artificially for some results making the recording engineer the creator instead of being the servant in the recording process ...
 
The studio engineers working in the classical field recording work to help these initial acoustical choices in some acoustic location by the recording engineers ... They dont work thinking that all the potential listeners will buy the same studio system as them, but they know that customers will listen in many different room and acoustic conditions... They dont optimize the sound in a way that what they intended will be heard and decoded by a system exactly as their own, if they were doing so they will create a product completely different than the microphone trade-off recording process intended by the maestro or the musicians ALSO involved often in the recording process to begin with...
 
Then saying that playback studio is the source of the sound is false... It is confusing the recording process of live recording with the studio recording and mixing process among other confusions ...
 

The sound quality is not defined only by mixing and digital accuracy but by other acoustic factors as time and timing and different ratios of reflectivity...Then speaking as if " digital audio accuracy" was the main factors is confusing digital mixing with acoustic recording or worst subordinating recording to mixing as if the mix in itself  was the goal...And it is forgetting  that dsp mixing  are secondary compared the sound experience psycho-physical acoustic factors in the recording  concert hall and in the listening room ...

 
 
 
@mapman Great answer, but do you care about the most accurate sound or do you care about your enjoyment of music accurate sound be damned? Obviously you have given your expertise to the audiophile world which all around here appreciate. One of those branches is objective the other is subjective, your objective experience and commitment to audio is valuable but to me your subjective commitment to audio is only valuable is your ideas line up to my subjective ideas promoting confirmation bias something only the marketing department of audio manufactures need. I would really like your answer I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer.
 
 
And to answer this comment above, the subjective and objective factors in hearing are inseparable at the beginning and at the end... It is called psycho-acoustic... And digital audio is ruled by psycho-acoustic not the reverse... bit are not more true and more objective than some brain/ears experience.... Thinking this is reversing the acoustic science and subordinating it to digital process of translation.... Sound is not a digital signal... It is FIRST AND LAST a qualitative perceived experience...
 
Saying that audiophiles throw money to costly system and claiming that this can be preposterous in many case is a claim i can endorse but claiming that music is reducible to sound and sound reducible to digital signal is not even wrong... It is not even false.... It is a meaningless claim made with half truths around a way more complex interdisciplinary scientific matter and physical phenomenon ....
 
 
 
 
My guess is that a recording engineer wants to hear everything with the greatest detail possible when recording an artist. The engineer then takes those tracks and modifies them if working in the digital domain, according to the engineer’s and artists’ tastes. And now, above all, the engineer wants to hear in great detail what effects the the digital processing have produced. Then, there is the whole process of volume control for the individual tracks. This is done for analog recording also, or adjusting where artists stand or microphone position if recording a "live" performance. I see this akin to a cook deciding on more or less salt. The engineer is messing with how much each track proportionally contributes to the final mix. Yet again, the engineer wants to hear exactly what these modifications have done to the mix. So I am naively assuming that the engineer wants a playback chain that is extremely fast and highly detailed. Whether the playback system "sounds good" is of secondary importance. I do not think that equipment used in a recording studio is even designed to appeal to the tastes of the majority of home users.
 
 

 

 

Stereo listening from two speakers in a room is not a NATURAL nor an OPTIMAL way of listening music and sound...
 
There is a crosstalk destructive effect coming from the two speakers interaction for each ear that make accurate spatialization of sound and even timbre accuracy inexact and artificial...
 
We can control mechanically crosstalk to some minimal degree and imperfectly , i did it myself in my system/room; or we can completely control it and optimally by some filtering DSP as the BACCH filters do it perfectly this time compared to my mechanical gross tools for doing it ...
 
Then it is not the mixing in studio that matter the most and certainly not the purchase of the same audio components as the mixing engineer that matter; it is the accurate recording information process to begin with and after that his TRANSLATION by a DSP as the BACCH filters did because they were created to make stereo more natural by eliminating crosstalk in your system/room keeping in a more accurate state the original acoustic LIVED recorded information or the STUDIO recorded one ...
 
Nevermind the gear you own , if it is of the necessary relative minimal quality to begin with , the goal is RETRIEVING the original LIVED acoustic recording condition and the information related to all acoustic factors masked and degraded by stereo crosstalk and by measuring your room acoustic and Inner ear and head related transfer function to do so adequately and perfectly ...
 
I am pretty sure that Dr. Choueiri , an acoustician will never claim that to experience good sound we must buy the same piece of gear as some chosen mixing engineer...😁😊
And upgrading any component with a costlier one will not eliminate crosstalk either even if we choose to buy the gear recommended by the OP...
 
Acoustics  knowledge matter much than  the gear choice...
 
 

@mahgister I appreciate your point of view and I agree with all of what you said except for I feel like you have fallen into the common audiophile mindset that is simply wrong, I don't mean perspectively or subjectively wrong I mean wrong as in the difference between black and white. Many on this forum have no ability to separate the music from the sound and I should have spelled out the difference in my OP. Today live recordings of orchestras aren't recorded with 2 mics buttoned up and sent out to the masses to enjoy they have hours or days of post production, including filters, delays, reverbs, and loads of different kinds of limiters EQs and compressions. If you did get a pure recording with no post work I bet you wouldn't like the music because it's not what we expect anymore. Music today as you said is not real it is multitracked and manipulated is so many ways you would be amazed, generally it sounds much better than the original recording no doubt. The difference between the sound and the music is that the sound has nothing to do with anything in the recording or musicians the sound is simply a waveform it has nothing to do with bit rate sample rate acoustics engineers producers or microphones used in the recording the sound is what you have when the project is finished and it is the finished vision of the musicians and producers vision it can't be changed or enhanced after it is finished. Where this group goes wrong is evident in the posts even in this conversation audiophiles in general think sound engineers want detail and pureness the opposite is true most modern songs are compressed in dynamics and equalized all over, the "imaging" that is so religiously mentioned by the audio community is usually made by phasing tricks not by a producer mapping out where the musicians are playing on a virtual stage. Today because of Pro Tools and digital filters nothing is done as it was 30 years ago. The sound of the music is not real it is made up in nearly every way, the production squeezes out music like a cold line of toothpaste, the sound is unchangeable it is a baseline to be played in your listening room. By the way the models you see in magazines aren't really as beautiful as they appear Photoshop and Pro Tools do the same thing but once you have the finished product it is by definition the sound of the song. If an audiophile is not interested in accuracy of reproducing the finished product then there is no use being on a forum to learn about what other people like about a piece of audio gear or about how a sound makes them feel, it's their preference who cares.
 

Some of enjoy very old recordings that were recorded way before protools. They somehow sound real and wonderful. I'll keep my equipment.

I totally agree with your analysis i just quoted under , this is precisely why i listen music , classical and jazz mostly and world music , music coming from an era where the recording engineer was a craftmanship work...No commercial or pop or anything else...I dont like unnatural acoustic programmed effects and electronic sounds... ( i only make few exceptions for musical reason )

I dont listen to "commercial industrialized product" at all...

It is so unnatural that i put them in a trashbin so to speak...

Then i dont need to be "serious about sound" and buying the mixing engineer pieces of gear i guess to listen to such manufactured products 😁...

I use basic good gear well embedded electrically, mechanically and acoustically... I dont need any upgrade and my sound is already more than good... ( my only future upgrade will de BACCH filters)

I dont understand what you speak about by "being serious about sound " .... I am serious about music and  recorded acoustic instrument and natural human voices and chorus...

What is exactly your point ?

If your point is criticizing audiophiles for their upgraditis and lack of acoustic understanding i am ok with that...It is evident ...

Otherwise my position is clear ... Psycho-physico Acoustic define sound experience not the gear price tag and specs  which are only  tools for acoustics and for acoustic experience...

Where this group goes wrong is evident in the posts even in this conversation audiophiles in general think sound engineers want detail and pureness the opposite is true most modern songs are compressed in dynamics and equalized all over, the "imaging" that is so religiously mentioned by the audio community is usually made by phasing tricks not by a producer mapping out where the musicians are playing on a virtual stage. Today because of Pro Tools and digital filters nothing is done as it was 30 years ago. The sound of the music is not real it is made up in nearly every way, the production squeezes out music like a cold line of toothpaste, the sound is unchangeable it is a baseline to be played in your listening room.