The sound quality from DACs - is it all the same?

ASR seems to assert that only specs and measurements matter.  Some specs are worthless, such as speaker specs generally.  

Measurements are a starting point. Magazine reviews are interesting, although consistently positive.  Consumer shows present equipment under difficult and demanding circumstances such as the tiny rooms.  Listening to equipment at AXPONA is revealing.  
 

Listening to the equipment properly set up in your own room  is the only real test.  The specs, the measurements and the self-anointed experts (with the attendant Dunning- Kruger effect) will no longer matter when you judge it yourself, in your own home, without the unnecessary distractions.

For sure you are right ... 😊

BACCH Filters coupled to a dac or integrated with one is the next level technology...

Classical dac technology is mature in the perspective of the ratio sound quality versus price...

Thats all my remark meaning...

There is less difference between low cost dac and higher costly one than a decade ago...

Then upgrading a relatively good dac to another relatively good dac, if you like your acutal synergy experience with the other components, makes less sense than upgrading  immediately to BACCH system the next level where two technology are integrated to  another type of general DSP level...

I own 4 basic low cost dac and the differences between them is immediately perceptible but each one has his own function and synergy potential  but throwing many, many thousand dollars to upgrade any of them make less sense now than investing in BACCH filters  or way better other  investing in other components or investing in  embeddings mechanical and electrical or acoustical controls which will be more impactful together than any classical dac of any type upgrades... Better to buy BACCH or transform your room acoustic...If with your actual dac the synergy please you already for sure...

Dac is a mature technology now...

@mahgister , not necessarily.....I don’t wanna mention any specific brand names here.... But, some of the "higher end" DACs, i.e. if a manufacturer gets into the FPGA enigma, for example, he can do many things depending on his level of knowledge/competence. Perception of an enormous, immersive ’virtual surround like’ soundstage coming from 2 speakers can be attributed to proprietary algorithms, HRTFs and so on (that’s atleast one case i know of). I assume you are familiar with the BACCH cross talk filters, which is a different strategy than the former.

It is the 3D sound field that eventually gets to your ears and a lot of things can be done in the digital domain to modulate it. If you think of it along those lines, it is not necessarily a mature technology and has much room for improvement.

Wait for big boys like Sony to put something like their 360 reality audio inside a 2 channel hifi dac. You may get something for a 1000 bucks or 2000 bucks that took your listening experience a few notches higher than a 80k donkey dac.

A generalization like this is bollocks (..a suitable UK term that I will borrow herein , but you get the picture ,.).

(1) the audio performance differences in cheap versus high-end DAC audio performance are clear and unambiguous when you ascend into the high end audio systems pricepoint strata, with their resolution capabilities worthy of the added not insignificant cash outlay. Simply put , it is entirely system dependent ,

(2) Go test drive it for yourself instead of being mired in a lot of forum hyperbole. . Toddle down to your fave dealer bricks and mortar store with a suitable fine high-end system to personally audition the DAC options; ranging from the cheap build to high-end build (and price) alternatives. The objective is to differentiate the DAC contenders audio performance from the many pretenders .

gasoline powered automobiles are a most mature product technologically, presently

yet some of them perform much much better than others, differences aren’t subtle

technology (and its ’maturity’) are but one aspect of many that impact performance

For sure you are right ... 😊

BACCH Filters coupled to a dac or integrated with one is the next level technology...

Classical dac technology is mature in the perspective of the ratio sound quality versus price...

Thats all my remark meaning...

There is less difference between low cost dac and higher costly one than a decade ago...

Then upgrading a relatively good dac to another relatively good dac, if you like your acutal synergy experience with the other components, makes less sense than upgrading immediately to BACCH system the next level where two technology are integrated to another type of general DSP level...

I own 4 basic low cost dac and the differences between them is immediately perceptible but each one has his own function and synergy potential but throwing many, many thousand dollars to upgrade any of them make less sense now than investing in BACCH filters or way better other investing in other components or investing in embeddings mechanical and electrical or acoustical controls which will be more impactful together than any classical dac of any type upgrades... Better to buy BACCH or transform your room acoustic...If with your actual dac the synergy please you already for sure..

@mahgister , IMO, any DAC, i.e. digital/analog conversion --> filter deployment, etc is DSP. There is no such thing as a purist DAC really. Any DAC that uses FPGA is certainly not a purist DAC and is very much in the DSP domain. Even the common R2R dacs rely heavily on FPGA. Manufacturers don’t openly use the word DSP in their product lest they scare off the "purist" audiophiles. Low info audiophiles seem to be a bit too confused and/or conflicted when it comes to their understanding of what constitutes DSP or not.

BACCH, HRTFs and all other proprietary FPGA intervention, etc is an attempt to evolve/enhance a DAC’s function such that it begins to realistically portray the presentation of a 3D soundfield, layering, spatial cues, detail, etc to the ears (as would be respresentative of live great acoustic spaces with unplugged instruments playing and no PA equipment involved)

Lower cost DACs can easily match core SINAD measurements, noise floor, etc of any 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k whatever "high end" DAC. The real enhancement of the listening experience comes from the implementation of different types of DSP mentioned above. The latter comes down to the knowledge base/competence level of the individual manufacturer. In that respect, i have more faith in some of the bigger dogs (Sony, Yamaha, Sound United, Technics, etc) to come up with something worthwhile over the years. For example, Yamaha just invested ~100 million USD in audio R&D. I don’t care to waste my time (not a chance) with the fluff manufacturers a.k.a 1 guy tinkering in his garage and coming up with a price tag of 20k somehow! (he must think he’s that much of a genius!).

For now, i have a Denafrips Venus (~3k), Technics SL-G700 SACD player/DAC/Streamer combo unit (~3k) and a TAD D1000TX SACD player/DAC (~15k msrp, you could get it for 8 to 10k, if you are tactical 😏). I can justify a higher cost for CD/SACD player/DAC/streamer type of combo units when they are built like a mac truck and last for life. If the DACs become outdated in 10 years, they could still serve as top notch quality transports. But, i couldn’t justify that level of cost for stand-alone DACs, a constantly evolving tech.