When I think musical I think bouncy and good mid bass. Not necessarily accurate.
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@hilde45 If that were true there would not be a tubes vs transistors debate older than the Internet itself! Its a bit more complex than that. Many designers don't pay much attention to how the ear/brain system works. So they often just go for the least amount of distortion: your typical solid state amp. Solid state amps have had a reputation since the 1960s of being harsh and bright compared to tubes for the simple reason that the distortion of the solid state amp has unmasked higher ordered harmonics- the source of the harshness and brightness. Such amps do not tend to get a reputation of being musical and are part of why tubes are still around! |
In a nutshell, if i read atmasphere right , psycho-acoustics rule even gear design ... Not mere taste .... Van Maanen himself said the same thing as atmasphere ... https://www.temporalcoherence.nl/cms/en/ For sure different road can be chosen by each amplifier designer, but the road is chosen around the same center : human hearing characteristics ; then putting the emphasis on the way the ears/brain perceive harmonics or the way the ears/brain inhabit his own non-linear time domain; but these differences in design approach will never obey the mere taste of the designer so much as they will obey the specific psycho-acoustic facts and principles by which he will attack the designed "musicality" problem ... No taste relativity then to begin with and at the end of the design process .., But for marketing taste is first and last , because no design is perfect, marketers will call the customers and spoke to him about his tastes for "musicality" ...But there is not so much taste in the way we evaluate "musicality" as much as different levels and different acoustic aspects of this complex phenomena ,"musicality", where subjective evaluation is always conditioned by objective factors ......As musicians and acousticians and trained specialist and maestros or most designers knows already ... Atmasphere must correct me here if i am wrong ...
Interesting debate for sure ... |
I'd like to try an analogy. A lot of equipment is sorta like the pictures from a Kodak 110 film camera. They provide an image the photographer intended, at least most of the time. Colors are close, image lacks detail or controlled depth of focus. A picture. Compare that to a photograph from a large format 4 x 5 camera with a top quality lens in the hands of a master photographer. The finest details are part of the life captured in the picture. Accurate color and subtle shading, light and exposure tightly controlled to bring to life the subject of the image as well as the fine details in the rest of the picture. It is a work of life brought to an artful image that is precisely what the artist / photographer intended. In the context of the OP's original question, music is notes. Musicality is bringing the notes to life as intended by the artist. The dynamic reproduction of the event, not the simple tune. The fine details, the small changes in dynamics, the correct coloration of the instruments including changes to instrumental timbre as performed by the musician / artist. |
@atmasphere Like many here i've followed this discussion with interest, especially as relates to the discussion re sound or "musicality" of tube amps v ss--and i will say that in general i agree with you--just never knew the reason why--but as an expert amp designer what is your take on hybrid amps that use both tubes and ss at the output stage--do these amps suffer from the same issue as ss amps? or are they better at dealing with the higher-order harmonics b/c of the tubes? i.e. is having a ss output stage going to inherently have the unmasked higher order harmonics? |
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