2. misc-audio
  3. 187411-74972

Has buying and/or selling audio gear changed?

Hi Everyone, I've been a longtime observer on Audiogon but this is my first post.  I recently ran into a situation that was new to me as I've recently sold some of my gear and I'm in the process of replacing it.  I've used the normal websites (Audiogon, US Audiomart, TMR, etc) and those transactions have been smooth without any issues.  I normally use PP Goods and Services as well as insurance with shipping.  However, I recently was on a website of a well-known individual in the industry who has a piece of equipment that was reasonable priced.  No, it wasn't a "too good to be true" price but was in the ballpark of what one would expect.  As we were ready to finalize the sale, he informed me that he only does PayPal F&F and he won't insure the product for shipping stating this is now the industry standard and it was non-negotiable.  Is this the new standard and all my other recent transactions were non-typical because I used PP Goods & Services and made sure the shipping had insurance to try and provide some protection?  I don't live close enough to buy the gear in person and I've bought and sold across the US and never had a problem but always used Goods and Services for peace of mind for the unexpected issue or problem.  For the record, I'm only interested in conversation that is related to what the industry standard is, not the individual involved here.  Let me know your thoughts.      

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kennyc
1,539 posts
 

I try not to be dishonest for monetary gain or to avoid monetary loss.  

willywonka
255 posts
 

I don't use F&F unless it's someone I trust and NEVER a complete stranger! I make that very clear to them upfront! Why give up all my protections with PayPal. I'd rather purchase from someone else.

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

The PP F and F  is for ensuring monies are easily made available to others, it is not a Sale Transaction. 

Hence  once a payment for goods is made, there is no sopport from PP when a discontented buyer makes a complaint. 

I bet there is not a Case of a Vendor receiving monies from this method of Transaction having attempted to makie a case via PP about a sale outcome..

PP F and F, is the ideal one way loaded protection for a Vendor. 

desktopguy
375 posts
 

I buy and sell a lot on all the "usual suspect" websites. And I definitely noticed many sellers going to this stance of "Paypal Friends & Family only will be accepted" thing.

I know they have their reasons. Most simply don’t understand that the IRS’ regulation of Paypal has been repeatedly delayed and at this point won’t take effect until 2025--if at all. Most also don’t realize that most sellers actually lose money on the items they sell and thus wouldn’t be on the hook for taxes. I also think a number of sellers just jumped on the F&F bandwagon for no particular reason other than it reduces their accountability to buyers. A small but very real % of these sellers are dishonest and welcome the F&F thing because they never plan to deliver what the buyer paid for, or deliver junk that is not at all what the buyer thought he/she was buying.

I’ve had many discussions w/these sellers. I usually start out by politely trying to inform them of the things they don’t know or understand. But it always ends the same way, by me saying: "I don’t know you and you don’t know me. So I’m not about to simply hand you $1000s of dollars without some recourse. Either that’s Goods and Services; or, if you’re a business, give me a quote and I’ll pay with a credit card. Otherwise, it’s not going to happen."

When I sell I accept Good & Services routinely. I face zero risk from the IRL no matter how often I sell (I’d never get near that annual threshold if/when they actually enact it), plus I simply can’t expect strangers to trust me so readily that they’ll send money w/no recourse.

bmontani
193 posts
 

I would offer to pay the PP fee.  F&F limits your recourse.  

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