Have we lost civility and respect on Audio forums?


I think we have.  I have seen many discussion on audio forums and how nasty they can become when you have people disagreeing. Seems like there are a lot more know it alls now. I been in 20 years and I can still learn.  But I also know I know quite a bit. Like cables can enhance the sound and higher end well designed gear can truly be ear candy special.  Is this just on audio forums or the internet period. 

calvinj

Nobody negate the usefullness of double blind testing...

You dont get it scottwheel ..

But nobody here confuse laboratory protocols with home listening and audio optimization as a hobby ...

I dont need double blind testing protocol before purchase...

Some company as good  marketing practice could  gain to use it not only for publicity but for a continuous  improvement of the product...

What is annoying and preposterous  then is your fixation on double blind test as the only way to pick gear or to optimize our audio system ..Simple improvized blind test is enough ...

Did you get it ?

A hammer is not craftmanship, a double blind test is not science... It is a tool in the two cases which ask to be used at the right time for the right job and by the right person for a specific goal which is NEVER debunking  ...

 

 

@puptent thanks to real science and technology, i get a blood sugar reading every 5 minutes…. 

I also run a very heavily modified 1961 M240. I suspect we would get along well. Stop by anytime :-) i serve a mean Pinot, well you can decide if it’s Pinot as tge bartender…tends..to be…. double… blind

So the testimonial of some guy who worked with Toole is a better source on how Toole did his research than Toole and the actual published papers of Toole’s research? I disagree.

I've never seen anyone so afraid to listen to something that might mitigate, inform and help to broaden one's understanding of something like you do. Barton is not testifying; he's relating a past experience that's wholly relevant to this back and forth with you. I'm not saying Barton is a "better source" than Toole. He's been right there with Toole all along. 

All this tells me you're great at reading what you want and discarding the rest that doesn't conform to your views. You borrow someone else's work, cherry pick what you need, conflate things and hide behind your manufactured position. 

Every time I point you to that recording, you come back with evasion, side stepping something so simple as listening to another perspective that would help to educate yourself. Seems to me that you're aware, or feel it with your spidey senses, that you'd suffer a great heaping of cognitive dissonance yourself if you did so, hence the projection with your last post.

I see you soldiered on with another post while I wrote this so let me just say that nowhere in what you quoted from Olive's blog did he mention quick switching with the subjects. Yes, they used it, but for convenience. If you did read up on it, the speaker switcher could swap out a speaker in about 3 seconds but how long did it actually take before listening again? Cabling would have to be disconnected and reconnected. Toss in any number of things and they could have waited for a good 5 minutes before starting back up again. 

The tests I addressed in my "claims" were done a good 30-35 years before and all the way up to the speaker swapping device they came up with. I never said Toole, Olive and Barton didn't do blind listening tests. I didn't miss a thing.

All the best,
Nonoise

Now psychanalysing your motives and explaining your obsession for double blind test by the stress resulting from your discovery that we cannot trust our ears (which fact is not even wrong but which fact is not true either because we can and must learn how to train our ears) was perhaps an error i did trying to understand you ...

 

Perhaps you are only a techno- cultist objectivist in a crusade against deluded subjectivist audiophiles ... you are not the first one here ...

You never considered that "the faillibility" of human hearing was the reverse side of the coin , and reflect his creativity in perception of meanings ... We never hear sound as in physical waves, we hear meanings ...No perception exist without a concept behind it ... If not only meaningless chaos exist ...

@tomic601 I'm in the frozen Northern part of Flyoverlandia. A double blind bartender.... now that's some real scientific experimentation. Results are inconclusive, we'll try again tomorrow... Cheers!

Illegitimati non carborundum