Garrard 301 motor and rumble

What is overlooked when it comes to the usage of different drive mechanisms for creating the rotation of a TT's Platter. Is that all drives are able to produce a rotation that is absolutely correct to enable recorded music to be replayed as per the requirement for a recording.

Where the differences are to be discovered is pretty much limited to three alternatives for how the Speed is controlled. There has to be an interface that connects the Drive to a surface belonging to the Platter. Along with this connection there is the Electro-Mechanical Mechanisms in use to control the Speed of the Platters Rotation.

Taking producing sonic being produced out of the equation, each drive mechanism is able to produce an accuracy in the Speed Rotation to meet the requirements of replaying recorded music. This is pretty much set in stone, or Tech savvy enthusiasts for Vinyl Replays, would be spouting there protests endlessly, as this is not seen, it can be assessed that any Drive used for a TT, produces acceptable rotation speeds for the platter.

The Tonearm (TA) > Cart' being used in conjunction with a LP are the next ancillaries required to produce the Trilogy that enables Vinyl LP Recording Replays.

It is the introduction of the TA > Cart' that creates a New Interface and one that can be assessed as a result of being able to encounter a produced sonic.

It is the outcome of assessments, especially the extreme end, where analysis of the sonic is taking place, where a sonic being produced from a System Source is exposed as being an attraction or detraction to the individual only

Hence, following analytical assessment, certain individuals end up on a quest, sometimes very costly, to discover interfaces that are much more aligned with their own unique and preferred tastes. 

In my own Case, I have used in my system over a 30 Year Period in chronological order, BD (8yrs), ID (15yrs) and DD (8yrs).

For 15yrs with a ID and for 3yrs of the DD usage I used TA's from Brands SME IV and for a period with the ID and DD I also used a Audiomods Series V Micrometer.

Today on DD only I use a different TA, it is no longer based on Geometries introduced by Rega, and has a thought for the mechanical interfaces that have shown through as extremely attractive when in use contributing to the produced sonic.

At this time and place, I have found a method to produce Vinyl Replays, that in my opinion does not surpass any other I have used, all used over the years have been totally capable of producing music that has been thoroughly enjoyable as an entertainment.

As an individual, what my quest has enabled, is that the the present situation, is where the replays that are being encountered in my System and Listening Environment, are to myself as an assessment much more aligned to my own unique preferences.

It is each to their own, I find it very difficult how anyone can suggest an individual is not contented with their Source and System.             

@mijostyn The Pabst motor used by Empire is one of the best synchronous motors I've seen for a turntable. That motor was used in one of the Rek-O-Kut turntables and its probably the only one to mess with. Rek-O-Kuts had a pretty massive platter though but can't be damped easily due to the idler drive. Most of them I've seen don't use the Pabst motor and seemed to need some time to warm up before they would play on speed. I've not sorted out why but its something to do with the motor. 

The older motors had to rely on the AC lines frequency which is held within limits but is not as stable as an electronically applied signal which can be changed to adjust speed.

As you can imagine, this really isn't true anymore- there are devices which feed a very frequency stable 60Hz output for older motors like that- people are doing that for the Empire machines. But the AC line frequency has been traditionally very stable regardless- I'm not sure on the Empire if going electronic wins anything. 

@atmasphere 

I do not know what my dad's old Rek-O-Kut had in it. I'm sure you can upgrade old turntables with more modern drive systems and materials. But there is no way around the noise produces by the idler drive. You can lower it for a time perhaps but it will be back with a vengeance. Granted as a subwoofer user I am more sensitive to this problem but I have never used or listen to an idler drive turntable that did not rumble. Many systems are not capable of projecting a frequency that low but you can see it in the motion of the woofer. Why were rumble filters so popular in the old days?

Any low frequency noise is poison for a system with boosted subwoofers. With my current turntable and I'm sure there are many others, I do not have to use a rumble filter. I do program an 18 Hz very steep filter to protect the subwoofers in case of a mishap.

But there is no way around the noise produces by the idler drive. You can lower it for a time perhaps but it will be back with a vengeance.

@mijostyn My phono section cuts off at 2Hz; the mechanical resonance of the tonearm/cartridge combo describes the LF bandwidth limit. I don’t see my woofers moving except for bass notes. I don’t do anything in particular to flatten my LPs.

Its not hard to keep an idler drive system working with low rumble. Once a year, make sure the platter bearing is clean and properly lubricated. Do the same for the motor and idler bearing. Clean the idler surface at the same time and you’re good to go.

An idler will get noisy because it can perish and get hard (and so go out of round) or the motor is allowed to grind against it while the platter isn’t moving. So its always a good idea to give the platter a spin before starting it.

Cheap idler drive machines often have more noise because the platter is able to resonate. A more massive platter, espicially one that has been damped, will be quieter.

One of the reasons our Atma-Sphere 208 was so quiet was because we damped the platter. Not only did that help the bass out, you could twock the platter with your index finger while a record was playing and not hear it in the speakers. One of the reasons the Technics SL1200 works so well is Technics bothered to damp the platter. Anyone with a turntable can take this as a clue.

The Empire 208 platter, which we used in the Atma-Sphere 208, was particularly well suited to a damping treatment. Idler drive machines might be tricky in that regard, but often if there is the will there is a way.

I had Nottingham Spacedeck and moved to a heavy plinth Lenco 78 with SME 3009mk2 tonearm.
Lenco won in terms of PRaT, piano and organ tone, better bass, better instrument separation, more musical. No rumble, very quiet idler drive.

Most belt drive turntables are not accurate in rhythm nuances and play separate divided not connected sounds. The general meaning of music, the essence of interpretation itself disappears. They are also sensitive to the belt condition and bearing maintenance. Rubber belt should be changed each couple of years.