What happens when the stylus tip wears out on a $12,000 cartridge?

I definitely should have mentioned Van den Hul and SoundSmith offer excellent rebuild rates on their own cartridges! Much lower than 50%. It’s a huge advantage. I’ve really been enjoying some Van den Huls lately, and want to try SoundSmith too.

One of the problems with a worn stylus is the fact that it is now damaging your records. This can be something that is initially not that noticeable, until such time as you replace the cartridge or stylus and hear the groove damage!

@daveyf Is there any research or hard data around this topic? I find it hard to believe there would be NO audible cues for such a poorly conditioned stylus, especially on inner grooves, and especially if you have a "fresh" cartridge to compare (many of us here have several). I had an ancient Koetsu Onyx that sounded like magic on outer and middle grooves, but a mild overlay of grungy haze always emerged past those middle grooves. It could’ve been stylus wear, or suspension - I suspect the stylus. Anyways, I didn’t play it too much before rebuild, but the records I did play seem fine.

My impression of vinyl is that it’s quite resilient, and I prefer to avoid paranoia rabbit-holes on this issue. Sure, you can damage it - usually manifesting as lots of noise. I have some of those records in my collection, complements of prior owners. Many of these records still sound surprisingly good, other than the noise (loud ones, like Blue Oyster Cult and Metallica).

There’s a video on YouTube by vwestlife where he starts with a clean sounding record and plays the 1st track repeatedly with progressively insane VTF. IIRC he ends up at 30g VTF! (yes the suspension bottomed out so maybe not a full 30g). The record gets noisy, but honestly I was impressed how well vinyl held up to abject abuse. You read some of these forums, and they would make you think the grooves should have been rendered completely smooth past 10g VTF.

@mulveling I have not seen any hard data, however, I have personally witnessed an LP that had been damaged by just one pass of a worn out stylus ( A friend had inadvertently played a new album on his worn out stylus and then I played it back after one play on my system with my new cartridge....). The problem is that the stylus shape  ( being worn) is now essentially damaging the groove as it passes through. This is easy to understand, as the stylus is now cutting into the vinyl. I had a conversation several years back with Harry Pearson about this issue, and he concurred that the problem is that one really cannot hear what is damaged when listening to a cartridge that is worn out. Only upon a replay with a fresh cartridge will the damage become obvious.

As you say, we all own LP’s that have damaged grooves in our collections. The reason many times, besides the usual scratches due to poor handling and storage, is because the groove wall is damaged, and this is NOT something that can be seen under light! The result is a loss of high frequency extension and usually a lot more background hash and noise. The proverbial....noisy pressing.

I like to think my new purchase Vinyl will be quite high in quality as a first replay, but usually it had been found not to be.

Buying from a supplier that makes a return easy is beneficial, and I have returned an Album on one occasion three times, of which I believe the fourth supplied was the better of the batch. This same Double Album was cleaned using the PAVCR Manual Method and was much improved, much of the noise diminished.

When buying Albums under my other guise to help a new to the industry Artist>Band, this can be a increased risk as a Crowd Fund or Merchandise Web Page can be the sales portal, returning an Album can be less straight forward.

I take all new purchase Albums to my HiFi Group to offer new musical encounters, to date the die hard Vinyl Brigade have always been complimentary of the Vinyl's Quality.

When it comes to replaying my long term owned Albums, some as long as 40 years, where many of the performers are now passed, I don't go heavily on the criticism of the Vinyl's condition, I just like it to replay in a way, I feel the Styli is not being exposed to unwanted abuses from the grooves condition, surface noise and a tick/pop, these are merely crows feet wrinkles seen at the sides of a loved ones aging eyes. I would not swap that Vinyl out for any other, a CD will have to do, if a recording it is to be listened to without the aged interference.        

@pindac You make an interesting point about old vinyl and the condition that we can maybe expect. However, with the many new releases/reissues that are coming out and have been released, I see little reason these days to accept a noisy pressing of a record that i know has been re-released/reissued and is not only likely to be a quiet pressing, but also probably also at least as good a mastering ( many times better). Sure, if the original is so rare and unusual that it has not be re-released/reissued, then putting up with a noisy pressing is the only option. Luckily today the likes of Acoustic Sounds, Blue Note and Impex and others are releasing re-issues that are generally excellent.

As an aside, I used to collect original BN pressings, some of which I would pay high $$ for, now if there is a reissue, I am all in on that...at a significant saving in cost. ( and almost always at a superior condition).

IGNORE COST, when to check/replace/rebuild?

I made a chart, forgot I made it.

I have a general idea of how many hours/week I listen to LPs, use that to guess life, then ship to someone you trust to evaluate it/rebuild it.

Say it's estimated good for another 200 hours, you could try selling it with that established expectation documented, go ahead and buy a new one for yourself.

Audio Technica has a program for their MC cartridges: they check it, if worn they offer to keep it and sell you a new one at substantially reduced price. I bought a new replacement  AT33PTG/II at half price

.........................................

Soundsmith has a chart giving 'average' life expectancy for various stylus shapes.

"Wear, Tear and Life

So we know that the more extreme line contacts reduce wear.... but what is the difference?

Apparently according to Jico (manufacturer of the highly regarded SAS stylus), the amount of playing time where a stylus will maintain its specified level of distortion at 15kHz is as follows:

• Spherical / Conical     - 150hrs
• Elliptical                        - 250hrs
• Shibata/Line contact  - 400hrs
• SAS/MicroRidge          - 500hrs

This is not to say that at 500 hrs a SAS stylus is "worn out" - but at that stage the wear has reached the point where distortion at 15kHz surpasses the level specified by Jico for a new stylus. (Which I believe is 3%).

Some manufacturers have traditionally defined a stylus as being "worn out" when it starts to damage the record... in these terms the figures provided by Jico can at least be doubled, and in some cases quadrupled."

excerpt from here:

https://www.sound-smith.com/articles/stylus-shape-information

I always say: advanced stylus does cost more, but figure in the 'average' longer life, they do not cost much more.

12K, noooooo wayyyyyyyyyyyy