Comparison of sonic qualities of some tonearms

Dear @drbond  : " it is an expensive hobby ".

Well it could be as expensive as is the knowledge level of us audiophiles. You made it expensive when choosed your TT with out took in count the additional arm boards price.

As you move up in the learning ladder as lesss expensive could be the hobby.

I think that still own the Atlas and the Koetsu and please let me ask wat's wrong or what dislike you with the 2 tonearms you mated it? 

You already have in mind the SAT and SAFIR that considered the first and second " best ":

" if we discuss the technical components of tonearms, does the supposed sonic success of the Kuzma Safir, with an effective mass of 60g, which is possibly only second to the SAT in sonic performance, demonstrate how little is known about how the tonearm actually works in reality? "

SAT is a good design and its main characteristic is its excellent quality levels in manufacture but it's not a tonearm that has any " news/discoveries " to the audiophile  tonearm experiences. The real seller of the SAT 9" was its review in Stereophile even at that very high  price.

The SAFIR success could be to audiophile " ignorance "  on what that dinamyc high mass does to any cartridge suspension and tracking.

Both tonearm were/are the new kids in the block.

Here you can read some objectiv measures on the Helix ( not to good ) and one of your tonearms:

HiFi-News-H2-Dohmann-Review.pdf (dohmannaudio.com)

Btw, normally the top cartridges are designer/manufacture voiced through normal pivot tonearms not underhung ones.

You ask for the VIV that taking in count my last statement seems to me does not to much sense to ask for.

If you can share the why's on your tonearms/cartrisges and this thread will put ligth rigth in the thread and maybe could you have better advise of what you are looking for.

R.

Back on the Threads Title.

For myself I can't say a TA ,has a sonic quality that is better or worse than any ,other.

I am without any doubt there are designs much better through design choices and materials selection that come with inherent capabilities, that will be discernible and ,potentially quite noticeable in, how the Cartridge can function. 

As the Cart;' is Transferring the energies ,produced from ,having groove modulation ,pass by it. The Cart's function and dependency on the TA is looking like the device in conjunction with  the TA, that is responsible for the sonic quality.

The only other attachment to Sonic Quality from a TA is the Signal Path designed for it, ,how many connections from Cart' Pins to Phnonostage and the Wire Type.

I don't see the TA's Structure or Materials being solely the Sonic Influence, but   more the means to manage energies of which some might be possibly an audible and detectable colouration ??  

Dear @fsonicsmith  : " That is my opinion and you are welcome to yours. "

Thank's, to each his own.

R.

Dear @rauliruegas

To address your points:

I presently have at least 5 MC cartridges. I enjoy each of them, and each has its own strengths and weaknesses, and I do have a favorite, but that’s for another thread.

The SAT and Safir seem to have the best reviews overall, but not many have heard them enough to validly compare to more common tonearms.

I have the Helix One, which I would think would sound very similar to the Helix Two, but those who have A-B’d both say that the Helix One sounds much better. . .how much better, and in what ways? I don’t know. . .but again, that discussion can be reserved for another thread.

I was simply asking about the Viv tonearm because a couple commented about their ownership, so it would be interesting to hear two different perspectives on the tonearm, with respect to timbre of various instruments, sound stage, evenness of sound, etc. . .

I’m content with my system, but I started this thread in the interest of hearing other peoples’ experiences with their different tonearms.

.Thanks. 

@pindac The Blackbird is a brilliant design. I think calling it a sideways unipivot is somewhat derogatory. It is a braced pendulum bearing pivoting on a horizontal thrust bearing. The mechanism is not obvious looking at the arm and it is hard to explain in words. I am not fond of the string finger lift. I prefer the old fashioned kind. Otherwise I see no reason why it should not be a grand performer. It is ugly as h-ll, but that would not stop me. 

@drbond I have a reasonable amount of experience with the Saphir and none with the SAT. Neither tonearm interests me in the least. I do not think either arm offers anything over arms that cost significantly less and are even better designs. Yes, a lot of people are impressed with these arms and I would say they are being swayed by expectation bias.  I'm still waiting for Dohmann to put a vacuum plater on the Helix, but had I one I would put either a Reed 5T, a Schroder LT or both on it. They offer the benefit of extremely low tracking error and no skating with similar effective mass in both directions. This is more than enough to separate them from the pack including both the SAT and Kuzma arms.