Schroder Tonearms - where do I purchase? are there authorized sellers in US?


I now own a Sota Cosmos Eclipse w/ vacuum after a 30 year hiatus from vinyl.  On this forum, I mostly read other posts absorbing valuable info, especially from the relative few with decades of meaningful experience.  I know a Kuzma 4Point9 and the Schroder CB or LT would be a good match for the Sota.  However, given what appears to be a "who's on first" situation in how to confidently purchase a Schroder product, I am becoming increasingly inclined to just go with the Kuzma out of sheer practicality and convenience.  There must be reputable analog shops in the US who are knowledgable and trusted concerning the Schroder product??  I have no desire to struggle to reach one of Frank's grunt guys (does he have any) in Germany.  

jymc

That is correct @jymc. The Origin live arms fit nicely on the Cosmos. The Agile is a nice arm, but I prefer the Schroder. The CB's vertical and horizontal effective mass are almost identical and it's magnetic antiskating is more effective than a weight on a string. The magnets also provide damping so the resonance point is very muted. The OL has a higher horizontal EF due to the massive bearing housing. If you get the vertical resonance right at 8 Hz it will force the horizontal resonance down lower where it might cause problems. The OL has no damping at all. IMHO the OL does not justify it's price although you are probably going to get a good price on it. It is certainly less complicated to live with as it already has a tonearm rest and finger lift. Frank Schroder thinks these items cause resonance problems. You can also get the CB with silver wiring. You choose the CB for the same reasons you chose the Cosmos. It will outperform your friend's Acoustic Signature at a fraction of the cost. The only downside, if you consider it so, is that it is frumpy looking in comparison. I could care less. The only other turntable that interests me is the Dohmann Helix. I am waiting for it to get vacuum clamping. 

The OL has no damping at all.

@mijostyn , I always appreciate your posts and learn a lot from them, even when I disagree. I’m wondering why you make this claim. OL’s description of the Agile plainly states:

The Agile has undergone lengthy experimentation to achieve the lowest resonance possible,

[and]

Counterweight resonance is reduced using a higher grade material and then applying a dampening coating.

Isn’t the point of damping to reduce resonance, or at least shift it to a benign frequency? The OL design would seem to be explicitly trying to achieve that end, according to its literature. They might not be adding some sort of damping material to anything but the counterweight; I don’t know. But they are applying it there, and seem to be engineering out the need for it elsewhere. Or trying. In any event, resonance is clearly on their minds. I’m not disputing you here, just wondering why you’re so convinced, since the Agile is an arm I’ve considered.

@wrm57 That is the kind of marketing that drives me nuts because people have a hard time understanding what they are saying and assume it must be true.

The resonance that concerns us most with tonearms is that between the mass of the arm and the spring of the cartridge's suspension. Damping to minimize that resonance point must effect that suspension directly not by keeping a counterweight from vibrating but keeping the tonearm from vibrating. That is like telling me you got a much better ride by putting a shock absorber on your steering wheel. We do that on motorcycles to prevent "death wobble" or steering slap, not to control the ride.

What Origin live is saying is that their counter weight resonates or vibrates and needs a coating to counteract it. Why not just design a counterweight that does not resonate like Frank Schroder? 

My turntable is a year old, so I just recently went through the ordeal of choosing a tonearm. I can afford any arm on the market if I wanted to, but I also do not like wasting money. I did look at Origin Live arms, but the sweet spot in their line is the Enterprise. The Agile is severely overpriced and does not give you much more than the Enterprise. Be that as it may, The Schroder CB is a better arm. It has first class bearings, magnetic damping, magnetic antiskating and every adjustment needed in a very elegant simple appearing package that ticks off all the important attributes in pivoted tonearm design without adding functions I dislike like VTA towers and tonearm rests that do not lock the arm down securely.  It's only downside is it is plain appearing and is not going to massage anyone's ego. The enterprise is not a bad arm, it is better than most, but the Schroder does it that much better and I got more than my money's worth. Origin Live's customer service reputation does not help either. 

@mijostyn Thanks. I get that the counterweight coating is something of a band aid. As you say, why not a non-resonant weight? And I got a laugh out the image of a steering wheel with a shock absorber attached, although it is obviously absurd while making a counterweight non-resonant is obviously not. Resonance there, after all, contributes to systemic resonance. But your point is taken: address it where it matters most. I was mainly wondering what you know about the OL arms that makes you think they don’t do anything elsewhere, since your statement about damping was blanket.

I have to say, your impassioned advocacy for the CB-1 makes me want to pick one up if only to see for myself. There’s a used CB-1L available at a good price, and I have the back position on my Technics crying out for something better than the Ortofon AS-309S that’s there now. I know the arguments that favor a 9" over an 11" arm. Does your love for the CB still hold for the longer one?

@wrm57 When we talk about tonearm resonance and damping nobody is thinking about a resonating counterweight aside from the fact that thin coatings do not do much.

As for Long Arms, Schroder will not make an arm longer than 11" He feels that is maxed out and I will defer to him on this. It is certainly a lighter arm to begin with and you have the flexibility of using a variety of cartridge mounting plates. I only use 9" arms not that I have much choice as that is as long as my table will take.