I see the issue with ABX blind testing

soix

8,560 posts

04-13-2024 at 08:40pm

“What works for you works for you. But professing what you perceive should apply to others’ perceptions and/or use cases? Better off having some evidence.”

@benanders Yeah, and if a frog had wings he wouldn’t bump his ass a hoppin’. Back in the real world and in most cases there is limited or no “evidence,” especially with something like cables.

@soix evidence for / against cable differences - that cable manufacturers don’t seem to hold consumer preference studies seems like a strange knowledge gap to maintain, IMO. Critical parameters for cables in aerospace and military purposes show minimal to no measurable difference in what almost any HiFi setup would use. But let’s set aside such measurements since admittedly they’re of limited relevance for music listening purposes if not closely aligned with consumer preference studies.

I mean, that’s why we’re here — to give others an indication of something they might or might not want to audition or try, not to profess as you say that our perceptions will necessarily be the same as theirs, but indications can still be very useful and helpful despite the inherent variability.

You previously stated you surmise anyone who cannot hear differences that you perceive in cables, to have compromised hearing and/or equipment; that sure seems like professing to me. I’m unclear which stance you actually hold since it couldn’t very well be both, could it?

(BTW, when I said I can hear differences that are clear, consistent, and repeatable I was saying for me — not necessarily others — in response to your assertion based on some study somewhere that people’s aural memory is crap and you need a flip switch to reliably discern differences — I again say hogwash to that.)

Well, that’s your prerogative @soix . Rigorous objective studies on our biological capacities and limitations tend to hold up among scientific panels and courtrooms, but admittedly Internet personalities can think of them whatever they want, whether or not they’ve reviewed the material.

dwcda OP

8 posts

04-15-2024 at 08:35am

@mihorn I listened to that on my system & heard no difference between any of the 4. So I had my spouse choose the part to play while I had no idea which she was playing & I could not tell if she was playing different pieces or just the same one again & again. So no difference for me.

Is it just me? Has anyone listened to those 4 recordings and heard differences?

@dwcda YouTube compresses sound files so there’s potential for argument. However, I’d expect any compression effects would be independent of cables. Multiple other reasons why YouTube clips could be problematic for comparisons like this, but I’ll try to give a listen later. Thanks @mihorn for making the effort.

dwcda OP

@mihorn I listened to that on my system & heard no difference between any of the 4.

Is it just me? Has anyone listened to those 4 recordings and heard differences?

Thank you for your honest feedback!

1st, it’s hard to notice the sound difference with my system which is a really good sounding system. The sound is still good with a bad power cable.

2nd, the change between 4 PCs is one piece power cable which is may be 3~7% of a whole sound. It is a small portion.

3rd, You have no idea what the difference looks like between 4 PCs sounds. The sound is a hard field to describe or explain since the sound is invisible. The evaluation of sound needs much experienced and trained ears. Many people and I took decades to earn seasoned ears.

Below is mahgister feedback of 4 PC test video from Cable matters thread which I agree.

I can hear the differences easily...😊

Wavetouch win for me easily ... More natural sound ... The worst is the first i dislike it completely 😁... Second zentara better indeed but wavetouch win the cake and is not fatiguing as the first cable and more natural timbre than the second ...

=============================================

4th, my system is an only natural sound system in the world and your ears are used to un-natural sounds. Your ears need a couple minutes of adjustment with my system sound.

A sample of the natural and un-natural sound.

There are many more me to say but it is useless if you don’t see it.

====================

4 sounds are confusing. Please try 2 sounds.

Please listen below whole music. Try to watch 70% (listen 30%) to locate sound images and location of instruments and voice. Concentrate and try to remember.

Please try to locate instruments and voice. Click 18:53

Please try to locate instruments and voice. Click 4:46 Please remember the difference is subtle. Alex/WTA

1st, it’s hard to notice the sound difference with my system which is a really good sounding system. The sound is still good with a bad power cable.

That's my concern with the cables I auditioned. There could be differences but they're very small and not worth the cost to me 

3rd, You have no idea what the difference looks like between 4 PCs sounds. The sound is a hard field to describe or explain since the sound is invisible. The evaluation of sound needs much experienced and trained ears. Many people and I took decades to earn seasoned ears.

Below is mahgister feedback of 4 PC test video from Cable matters thread which I agree.

I'd find that analysis valid if mahgister listened to a sample of 6 recordings and gave a similar synopsis without knowing which recording related to each cable and could discern the duplicates.

You previously stated you surmise anyone who cannot hear differences that you perceive in cables, to have compromised hearing and/or equipment; that sure seems like professing to me. I’m unclear which stance you actually hold since it couldn’t very well be both, could it?

@benanders You took this out of context.  This was in response to another previous post by someone who adamantly stated there are no differences between cables whatsoever, which to me is patently absurd but he’s free to think whatever.  And I was clear that my opinions on individual cables (or components) are just an indication of what others may (or may not) hear, and I don’t profess at all that if they hear things differently that they’re wrong.  I still enjoy and find it helpful to hear other people’s subjective impressions of how things sound whether I ultimately agree with them or not, but most times I get something out of their opinions and learn something from them — that’s largely why I’m even here.  But you continue to hang your hat on biological studies, scientific panels, and things that supposedly can’t be measured with respect to cables in other various industries and I’ll just continue to listen and trust my ears.  Whatever, and to each his own.

 

 

dwcda OP

9 posts

04-14-2024 at 11:14pm

….

That’s my concern with the cables I auditioned. There could be differences but they’re very small and not worth the cost to me

I mentioned this in one of my posts earlier in this thread if you recall. Even if you will hear a difference is it worth it to you. But then you stated you thought you heard an improvement and when you switched back to Mogami you realized it’s all the same. No difference. Not a thing.

Cable evaluations can only be concluded -

• I hear the difference, like it and can’t unhear it, I just have to have these cables.
• Yes there’s a difference but I don’t like the effect
• I hear the difference but it’s too small to justify the investment.
• I hear no difference at all.

There’s also another category that flat out deny there could be a difference without even trying anything. This is the give me scientific evidence, blind test, measurements crowd.

In either case, it make absolutely no sense to argue and try to convince anyone. As I said earlier, the arguments fall on deaf ears.

OP - your room acoustics when addressed will be a better ROI than cables, in the current state of your system. Revisit cables after if you still feel the need to explore.