Is it possible to really generalize about this? Can we say that all mms are inferior to all mc, for example? Or are some mm better than some mcs? One can speak of general traits of differing technologies, but ultimately a high degree of musical fidelity can be obtained with all of them. At some point listener preference becomes key
MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?
Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question : " true " answer.
Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.
Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.
In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread I remember that he was truly emphatic posting that my MM conclusion was not true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.
Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.
I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.
I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind ) MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.
So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.
I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.
We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges as an " isolated " audio item and that any of our opinions when be posible stay in the premise: " everything the same ".
My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.
So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.
Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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@dover , great to hear from you and thank you for your concern, but it was not I who made the comment re groove noise. In the endless debate about the relevance of the live music experience as reference, as @rauliruegas has pointed out this comment from @pryso is key. It may not be possible or practical for some, but there is no getting around it. *** I don’t intend to say attending one or two a year is sufficient. Repetition is needed to ingrain the unique sonics or each type of instrument and vocal range. Again there is the likelihood for sonic variations from one live venue to another, one brand or design of a given instrument to another, and individual vocal characteristics. So broad and aggregated experience becomes necessary. ***
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@lewm exactly, especially when you consider price. MM and MC cartridges occupy two distinctly different markets. Buyers of MC cartridges are willing to spend much more money on a cartridge than buyers of MM cartridges. Thus, MM cartridges are a much better value. MM cartridges rule below about $1500. MI cartridges seem to straddle the two markets. I would rather have say an Ortofon 2M Black LVB than any of the low end Hana cartridges. The one huge advantage of high output cartridges is a much better signal to noise ratio which everyone will notice right away. If you have a MM phono stage and desire to get into the highest level of performance I can not recommend the Soundsmith Voice highly enough. It makes far more sense and will be less expensive than springing for a MC phono stage and cartridge. |
@frogman Thank you for the link: I do know that musicologists regard tension and release as something written on the stave. My point was why is they can say that? Why do we all, or nearly all, recognise what the music is doing to us? That must belong to the realm of neurology, even if we don't have the foggiest idea of how. @mijostyn After a day of experimentation yesterday, I'm of the opinion that the Sussurro MkII ES sounds different this time because it is awfully sensitive to VTA - I believe I have read that the Soundsmith OCL stylus looks a lot like an Ortofon Replicant. For the first time I'm seeing why Soundsmith cartridges are so beloved by their owners. Once I had fiddled with that, I ended up playing albums on the LP-S, Sussurro and Decca Reference. The LP-S plays them in a coolly clinical way, detailed but not necessarily involving (and this is supposed to be a relatively lush MC!). The Sussurro would be a great way of getting a non-vinyl person to see why they might try it out. It's warm, bouncy and rich, but still has nearly all the detail of the LP-S, if a bit less clarity. The Decca is somewhere between those extremes. I wish I were in a position to try The Voice and a Hyperion too. (I cannot speak about imaging or soundstage, having one ear and no ability to hear stereo.) @rauliruegas You're right that rare live attendances at live music won't make much impression. I wonder whether the kind of performance makes a difference too? I used to go to half a dozen operas a year, so I feel I know what one ought to sound like (for that hall etc). My next door neighbour before my last move used to offer piano and chamber recitals in a purpose built space in her home, and often remarks how much she likes to listen to my hi-fi. I have very little exposure to small venue jazz, folk or vocals, so I may be less critical about those kinds of music. I suppose that at the end of it all, as long as we enjoy what we use, we should be happy. It just makes it harder to describe the sound of a cartridge to others if we don't share a reference point. |
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