MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?
Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question : " true " answer.
Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.
Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.
In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread I remember that he was truly emphatic posting that my MM conclusion was not true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.
Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.
I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.
I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind ) MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.
So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.
I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.
We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges as an " isolated " audio item and that any of our opinions when be posible stay in the premise: " everything the same ".
My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.
So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.
Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
IME $2K LOMC Cartridge- 10 / 10. The best sound I have heard vinyl make in my system. $2K MI Cartridge- 7 / 10. Tried a supposed excellent MI cartridge and it was a disappointment. $1K MM Cartridge- 6/10. Not bad but still did not compete with the LOMCs at or above its price in terms of refinement and dynamics. |
@avanti1960 What was the $2k MI cartridge? If you don't want to say it out loud you could always PM me. I'm suspecting an Aida based on the price. |
Dear friends: I had a really motivated and learning week end at my place. A close audio friend came with a good friend of him that in the past been listened twice my system but this time he brought his 3 months old CHP1/X1 and his Lyra Etna Lambda SL and obviously with the CH recording to use the CH Wizard.
He ask to listen the Etna in the CH current sensing mode and that latter on in the normal voltage mode. I have to say that was and is a great opportunity for me not only tolisten the CH in my system but make several comparisons between current/voltage and even that the CH owner was not interested about we listen too MM/MI cartridges. We had a 7 full hours ( at least maybe a little more. ) of great listening fun where all of us learned.
We started to connect the P1 to my Essential 3180 integrated line stage for listen the Etna in current mode ( made it all the protocol in the CH digital software. ). The CH owner knew my room/system qulity level performance . I was not surprised of the very high CH/Etna listened quality levels but who was surprised was the CH owner due that the 3180 line stage is a unique elctronic design. He brought wiith him his own LPs and I listened too to some mine. After a time weswitched to voltage mode where there we can't find out a winner mode stage and only we have a winner when we switched the Etna tomy voltage Essential 3180 that was really better than the CH in current/voltage modes. The lessons for allof us is that current mode in reality is not what today phono stages owners believe where the voltage in my 3180 is superior and in the CH through the 3180 line stage is at least at the same level than current mode and we had not any singlenoise levels better in current mode than voltage one. So I confirmed that current superiority is only a myht and not so good voltage designs against it. But the big surprise for my audio friends where when I switched to a MF cartridge that @dgarretson named in this thread Astatic MF 200 where the top of the line is the MF 100 that I sold because the MF 200 is superior quality performer and the best of Astatic was the earlier MF 2500 that today I really regret to sold it. Terrifc ( forsay the least ) quality levelperformance that no one but me could believe because the MF 200 outperformed the Etna in the CH or in the 3180. The MF 200 in the CH plays really good too but not like in the 3180. All those confirm what in this thread and in other threads I posted that to really appreciate the true MM/MI/etc we need the rigth MM phono/line stagesand I'm proud to have it.
I remember than a friend Agoner that when the MMlong thread were with posts after more posts bymany audiophiles I told him to buy some of the real top cartridges that we can boughtfor less than 200 dollars and he never want it he was pesimistic/incredulous even with several audiophiles opinions about and obviously that losted that great opportunity and that same gentleman I offered twice that " rigth " MM stage and as with the cartridges he just rejected. That's why I'm glad with the @dgarretson posts because he pulls the triger in those times, good. That's the way I learned everything in my audio life:I almost always try everything and almost never say no.
R. |
@rauliruegas It really depends on the cartridge Raul. The Atlas SL sounds better with a lower signal to noise level in current mode, but the MC Diamond sounds better in Voltage mode. The Hyperon only works in voltage mode. It's great that your 3180 sounds so good. Maybe your friend will purchase one? |
@mijostyn : I can't talk on the Atlas but the Etna is similar design and sounds better through voltage design. The issue here is not " depends of cartridge " but more depend of phono stage/line electronics design. Even in the CH by a " hair " the Etna performs better than in current mode. Everything the same there is no reason for current outperforms voltage designs.
No he does not buy it because he has only 3 months with his CH that was an important investment around 54K and that's with out a line stage, so is an expensive stand alone phone stage.
Btw, I don't know yet which cartridge can outperforms the Astatic MF 200, is a tremendous and outstanding performer that at least for me tell me that phono cartridge today are only " refinenments " cartridges but I wondering which kind of refinements when a way vintage cartrridge design beats that top today cartridge and things are that at the end the cartridge motors is still the " same " with out a true deep changes. I think I paid 150 for the MF 200 that's in as new condition due that in those times I always try to buy at least 2 samples of the same model ( really inexpensive. ) due that were vintage and almost all second or third hand even in NOS condition a few times the cartridge gone down/failed.
R. |
