MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends: I had a really motivated and learning week end at my place.

A close audio friend came with a good friend of him that in the past been listened twice my system but this time he brought his 3 months old CHP1/X1 and his Lyra Etna Lambda SL and obviously with the CH recording to use the CH Wizard.

He ask to listen the Etna in the CH current sensing mode and that latter on in the normal voltage mode. I have to say that was and is a great opportunity for me not only tolisten the CH in my system but make several comparisons between current/voltage and even that the CH owner was not interested about we listen too MM/MI cartridges. We had a 7 full hours ( at least maybe a little more. ) of great listening fun where all of us learned.

We started to connect the P1 to my Essential 3180 integrated line stage for listen the Etna in current mode ( made it all the protocol in the CH digital software. ).

The CH owner knew my room/system qulity level performance . I was not surprised of the very high CH/Etna listened quality levels but who was surprised was the CH owner due that the 3180 line stage is a unique elctronic design. He brought wiith him his own LPs and I listened too to some mine. After a time weswitched to voltage mode where there we can't find out a winner mode stage and only we have a winner when we switched the Etna tomy voltage Essential 3180 that was really better than the CH in current/voltage modes. 

The lessons for allof us is that current mode in reality is not what today phono stages owners believe where the voltage in my 3180 is superior and in the CH through the 3180 line stage is at least at the same level than current mode and we had not any singlenoise levels better in current mode than voltage one. So I confirmed that current superiority is only a myht and not so good voltage designs against it.

But the big surprise for my audio friends where when I switched to a MF cartridge that @dgarretson named in this thread Astatic MF 200 where the top of the line is the MF 100 that I sold because the MF 200 is superior quality performer and the best of Astatic was the earlier MF 2500 that today I really regret to sold it.

Terrifc ( forsay the least ) quality levelperformance that no one but me could believe because the MF 200 outperformed the Etna in the CH or in the 3180. The MF 200 in the CH plays really good too but not like in the 3180.

All those confirm what in this thread and in other threads I posted that to really appreciate the true MM/MI/etc we need the rigth MM phono/line stagesand I'm proud to have it.

I remember than a friend Agoner that when the MMlong thread were with posts after more posts bymany audiophiles I told him to buy some of the real top cartridges that we can boughtfor less than 200 dollars and he never want it he was pesimistic/incredulous even with several audiophiles opinions about and obviously that losted that great opportunity and that same gentleman I offered twice that " rigth " MM stage and as with the cartridges he just rejected.

That's why I'm glad with the @dgarretson posts because he pulls the triger in those times, good.

That's the way I learned everything in my audio life:I almost always try everything and almost never say no.

R.

@rauliruegas It really depends on the cartridge Raul. The Atlas SL sounds better with a lower signal to noise level in current mode, but the MC Diamond sounds better in Voltage mode. The Hyperon only works in voltage mode. It's great that your 3180 sounds so good. Maybe your friend will purchase one? 

@mijostyn  : I can't talk on the Atlas but the Etna is similar design and sounds better through voltage design. The issue here is not " depends of cartridge " but more depend of phono stage/line electronics design. Even in the CH by a " hair " the Etna performs better than in current mode. Everything the same there is no reason for current outperforms voltage designs.

No he does not buy it because he has only 3 months with his CH that was an important investment around 54K and that's with out a line stage, so is an expensive stand alone phone stage.

Btw, I don't know yet which cartridge can outperforms the Astatic MF 200, is a tremendous and outstanding performer that at least for me tell me that phono cartridge today are only " refinenments " cartridges but I wondering which kind of refinements when a way vintage cartrridge design beats that top today cartridge and things are that at the end the cartridge motors is still the " same " with out a true deep changes. I think I paid 150 for the MF 200 that's in as new condition due that in those times I always try to buy at least 2 samples of the same model ( really inexpensive. ) due that were vintage and almost all second or third hand even in NOS condition a few times the cartridge gone down/failed.

R.

Perhaps we should consider, without getting quasi-philosophical, to what extent musical experiences are transferable? In other words, will one man's "best" cartridge be perceived as being the "best" by someone else? Put it like that and it seems very likely that it will not.

We always end up suggesting and promoting what we like, and that is, after all, pretty much to be expected. But someone else's preference is at best a suggestion for consideration. It is important to listen for ourselves, and to trust our own subjective experience. Fear Of Missing Out is a lousy guide to buying equipment, and while it allows us to feel like an accepted member of the tribe, it does not necessarily provide us with the most enjoyable musical experiences.

dogberry, To the question posed in the first paragraph of your post, most of us would say "of course not". We each hear differently for reasons that have been belabored here many times over.  At the same time, I would like to think that when we say something is "blue", we all have an idea what blue is, except of course those of who are color-blind with respect to blue.  So if ten out of ten or eleven of us say that a cartridge sounds like X, I tend to believe I have some idea how that cartridge sounds, in some other systems, and even though I have never heard the cartridge.

As far as this business of ascribing separate powers and specific functions that govern our perceptions of audio systems to different regions of the brain (amygdala, limbic system, etc), I say as a physician and scientist (albeit not a neuroscientist) please take that information with more than a dollop of salt. The subject is interesting but the supporting data are conditional at best.  Nor do I think it even matters how we process the audible information that comes out of our audio systems.  But certainly I don't feel that my life is threatened (necessitating a fight or flight response) when listening to Miles Davis.

Pindac, You mentioned a "transconductance" phono stage.  By that term do you mean to indicate a stage that uses voltage gain, as opposed to current gain, at its input?

With regard to Raul's recent experience with current drive, I tend to agree, but I would not at all feel qualified to say that all voltage gain phono stages are superior to all current driven phono stages. (Nor would Raul, I am sure.)  I would only say that current drive is no panacea for all that may ail voltage drive. This is based on my own experiments in my own home system using several different LOMC cartridges