MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear @terry9 : Well, there are some really critical factors in the RIAA curve stage and depends on what the designer decided is the best overall quality performance level kind of design.

In our phonolinepreamp caps are critical as resistors too. Yes,almost all know that the best dielectric is the air and in a different place I experienced years ago with IC cables with air as dielectric and over the time were outperformed for " normal " dielectric cables, in reality never sounds better but just different.

Now and talking only on caps I have to say that everything the same probably you are rigth however a cap is more than dielectric and I’m not trying to diminish the dielectric importance down there.

I have deep first hand experiences with caps running in speaker crossover and electronics as the RIAA and at the input of my 20.6 Levinson monoblokcs that functions as coupling ( by Levinson design ) and at the same time as high pass filter in my crossover aso this cap is two times critical in that electronics as in the RIAA.

I even started a cap issue thread that thanks to that I made " hundred " of discoveries that at the end let me know that I was wrong with my way of thinking that in those times and about caps were for the boutique caps levels as: Duelund, Mundorf, V-Caps, Clarity, Jantzen, Audyn, and the like. I used and tested all those names and using its top models as the Duelund silver or V-Cap teflon Cu.

No one in those both applications where I used can’t compete against Wima ( this was my conclusion. ) looking for true/real neutrality.

Wima does not uses Cu or Silver ow any other inmaginable cahrateristics as paper in oil or in wax and other aberrations as that but in the input of my 20.6 I was using a very expensive V-Cap Teflon Cu and Wima outperformed with out any single doubt and for afew dime$ ( no more than 5.00 vs over 300.00 )

Nothing can’t beats a good electronics design using the rigth model Wima cap that’s way humble cap at any standard but we have to remember that Wima is the Standard in the whole Industry not only audio.

For me it’s more important the design of the cap and the quality level excution of that design and in these Wima is way superior no matters what, in some models Kemet is very near to along Vishay.

You can look to almost any good electronics design and all of them use Wima, yes the red/blue ones different models. Boutique caps are MKTG making money with each one ignorance levels ( including manufacturers. ). I paid thousand of money for those caps ( I have to say: heavy colored caps, each one in different ways but down there just does not exist neutrality. ) and yes it was a very high price paid it but finally I learned and here there is no true going back.

In the audio world happens things that many times maybe we don’t have a scientific response due to its complexity of to many invloved parameters, the caps is an example but next an example of a truly old cartridge wher even its output pin connectors are not gold plated but is a true challenge for any today top cartridge. I made a review of and several gentlemans testify different sessions what I said in the thread:

Audiogon Discussion Forum

So, it’s dificult for me to confirm the air dielectric in caps other that my experiences with the IC cables. Wima knows for sure what it’s doing. Yes, almost no one likes Wima in the analog/electronics audio signal path because has not any coloration you can detect: this is why.

R.

I had much the same experience with caps - Wima was quite good, some of the boutique brands not. I settled on Multicap styrene caps as being the most neutral.

As for direct experience and experiment, I can help you there. I did experiments with a break-out box, then on alternate channels of my phono stage.

Since all the good caps use a dielectric with a dielectric constant in the 2 - 2.5 range, and vacuum and air are very close to 1.000, I wondered. I thought that maybe radio stations that used $10,000 caps knew something that I didn’t. Tried those dielectrics in the same circuit as my favoured Multicap and it was no contest: clearer, cleaner, and far smoother (ESL system powered by mono blocks with air bearing / Koetsu front end).

Costly, though. Very bulky. And a wee bit tricky to design for. But worth it, IMO.

PS high pass filter in my crossover aso this cap is two times critical in that electronics as in the RIAA

You can’t be serious.

@terry9 : Why can’t be serious? I’m refering that the same cap runs as the amplifier coupling capacitor and at the same time I’m taking advantage on that Levinson design and is used too as the high pass crossover for my speaker/subs.

So, the high pass filter is not an additional " nothing " in the speaker/sub audio signal,I just use that coupling cap for both jobs.

Btw, for years I used the Multicap polyestirene ones and still own in stck several samples and asafactI use it today in the high pass filter for the add-on back speaker tweeter that works from 7khz up. Btw, in my system applications main speaker crossovers and amplifiers input coupling caps the Multicaps were and are beated easily for theWima model I’m using and Kemet does the same. In my external hard wired speaker crossovers I’m using the Kemet for the woofers instead the Wima.

Now,all what I have to do is to make a self test at the input of the amplifiers and in the speaker tweeters waiting that the size of the air caps permits that I do it.

At both places is very easy to me detect be aware if the air cap can beats the Wima I’m " married ". I can’t make the test in the RIAA due that then we have to re-calibrates everything in that circuit to achieve our 0.012db RIAA deviation and this is to much work for us rigth now.

R.

"Can't be serious" because a phono signal is 1/100 the size of a line stage signal, and any distortion is therefore magnified 100 times before the crossover. That was my reasoning. Do you think that my reasoning is flawed?

@terry9 Unfortunately, it is flawed. Not only is the distortion amplified but so is the signal. The distortion remains the exact same percentage.