why expensive streamers


@soix and others

I am unclear about the effect on sound of streamers (prior to getting to the dac). Audio (even hi-res) has so little information content relative to the mega and giga bit communication and processing speeds (bandwidth, BW) and cheap buffering supported by modern electronics that it seems that any relatively cheap piece of electronics would never lose an audio bit. 

Here is why. Because of the huge amount of BW relative to the BW needs of audio, you can send the same audio chunk 100 times and use a bit checking algorithm (they call this "check sum") to make sure just one of these sets is correct. With this approach you would be assured that the correct bits would be transfered. This high accuracy rate would mean perfect audio bit transfer. 

What am I missing? Why are people spending 1000's on streamers?

thx

 

delmatae

Why are people spending 1000's on streamers?

We're idiots.  Obviously.  

Happy, happy idiots.

🤪

I think that we can all agree that the data is reaching the streamer and DAC intact. Networks are extremely reliable. But when it comes to audio, and reconstructing an analog signal from digital data, timing is very important. Good streamers use the best clocks, like OCXO, to achieve this for their SPDIF outputs. Good DACs use them for their USB inputs. This is just one factor in properly transporting and converting digital audio signals, it is quite different from displaying a simple data file on your computer. 
 

While I am not a strictly measurements based guy, I thiink you have to hear a component, and live with it for a while, before you can judge it. However Amir offers an excellent primer on digital measurements that gives you some insight into the complexities of digital audio conversion. You can read about it here:


Good streamers make a difference, it is that simple, and I don’t think you need a super high buck system to hear it. 

I suppose I'm the outlier here as I have tried many streamers and have yet to find one that's reasonably priced for what you get and that actually makes a sound difference that's worth the silly cost of some of them. Personally I have a dedicated micro PC that has been optimized for Audio streaming ( not an easy task) and up to now is the best sounding, it clearly beat the Aurender A10 I had and beat the Chord streamer I currently have (those both beat the Roon Nucleus I had prior). other then its a pain to use as you need a mouse, keyboard, TV/monitor.  I have found the DAC is by far the more important piece in the digital chain and its implemented will determine if your streamer is going to make much difference or not.  Well engineered DAC's are less susceptible to the streamer then poorly engineered DAC's. 

It sounds like what you are describing is a "server", not a "streamer", which often includes a DAC.  If you're expecting a server to vastly improve sound quality, you're correct in your assumption that it will have much less impact than the DAC will.

I went from a Roon Nucleus to a much more expensive server and was frankly somewhat disappointed that there wasn't much difference in sound quality, however there are good reasons to have a good server (which I consider the Nucleus to be) - onboard SSD storage, Roon compatibility, better connections to the DAC among them.  

In my case, the server I have also includes a top notch CD player that reads the CD into a buffer on the streamer, upsamples it, and sends it to my DAC.  It also has i2s connectivity and the two pieces are from the same manufacturer and designed to play well together.  One of my previous DACs was not ROON ready, but connecting it to the server allowed ROON to "see" it.

My opinion / experience is that for most people an expensive server will have little if any impact on sound quality, but may offer other benefits.

I'm using an ASUS ROG gaming PC as my streamer running Windows 7. I stream from Qobuz. I also have over 4,000 CDs which is my source most of the time. I run USB from the ASUS to my Berkeley Audio Alpha USB which is hooked up to my Berkeley Alpha Reference II MQA DAC using a BNC cable. My CD transport is a Jay's Audio CD3 Mk III.

I have compared the streamed Qobuz file with its corresponding CD (being careful that they are the same version) for at least 20 titles. The streamed file sounds identical to CD in every case.

I simply would not expect the streamed file to sound better than the CD played through the same DAC. If it did then I would question the quality of my CD gear. If my PC is somehow adding noise or corrupting the file then I can't hear it. I don't understand how a multi-thousand dollar streamer is going to sound better than a CD played through a Jay's Audio CD3 Mk III.

BTW, I have ripped my CDs to uncompressed FLAC using dB Poweramp, and I have compared these files to the CD. They sound identical.

I'm baffled why more listeners don't do this simple test, assuming they have CDs to compare with. IMO this should be the most important criteria for a streamer. Does it sound as good as the corresponding CD? If the streamer sounds better than the actual CD then I would propose that something in their system is awry. It's extremely hard to understand how a WAV file can be chopped up into packets, sent through thousands of miles of wire and hundreds of switches, go through your $200 home router, then reassembled into a file that can be read by a DAC, and actually sound better than the WAV file read from a CD.

Having said all that, my next purchase is going to be an Eversolo DMP-8 streamer but I'm getting it mostly for convenience. The reviews indicate that it has a very good interface and it has the ability to have enough memory installed so that I can put my ripped CD collection in the streamer which will avoid having to get a NAS or server.

My advice is to use CD playback as a standard for comparison. This is the only way to genuinely compare the sound of streamers IMO.