My new B Stock speakers


I finally got off the fence and a pair of B Stock Revel M126Be speakers arrived Friday, and there was no electrical activity in the atmosphere for the first half of the day, so I put 4.5 hours on them today (Sunday).

I want them to replace a pair of nearly 30 year old B&W 805 Matrixes. I say nearly 30 years old because I only remember that I bought them some time after ’94 and sometime prior to ’98.

Walnut cabinets and their appearance and finish is truly gorgeous, but that was not a priority, and the listing at MD did not do appearance justice. I listen in the dark with my eyes closed, and my listening room is closed off (I have three sometimes rambunctious dogs) whether I am in the room or not in the room. Appearance meant/means nothing to me. Just like my vehicles.

The serial numbers are not anywhere close to each other. I assume this is why they are B Stock? Not matched? The MD sales rep on the phone just gave me some generic possibilities why they could be B Stock.

This next is on me. Whenever I see speakers at MD that interest me (and the Revels did quite some time ago) I usually send MD a question asking where they are made. It is not due to xenophobia, but I would prefer to buy a speaker manufactured in America. I am not crazy about the idea of a company outsourcing for cheaper labor. But I am not trying to start a discussion on that. For the Revels, for some reason I did not send MD a message asking them where they were made, I did a google instead, and I got the impression that they were manufactured in Ct. And, without me asking, the sales rep from MD volunteered (when he was comparing Revel sound to B&W sound) that I would be impressed by the difference between British speaker sound versus American speaker sound. But the placard on the back says they were "made in Indonesia." Okay, enough on that . . . but I was looking for an excuse to send them back within 60 days.

They are rated at a sensitivity of 86 (the reviews say "easy to drive") and nominal impedance of 8 ohms. My Cary V12 did not sound (to me) strained using 50wpc triode vs 100 wpc ultralinear. These are in a small room at nearfield..

Out of the box:

I guess I had been in denial and my old B&Ws are actually worn out &/or obsolete.

Here is something that is NOT subjective that I do not understand, and perhaps someone who is knowledgeable can explain it to me. I have several test CDs. An older one has an in phase/out of phase that is a series of three test tones and the middle tone is supposed to be quieter as it is out of phase. With my B&Ws all three tones sound the same, BUT, on Rodger and Doug’s CD, where Rodger says says verbally "in phase, sound should be centered between your two speakers/out of phase, the sound should be all over the place. . ." (that was a paraphrase) the B&Ws did exactly that. So in the 4.5 hours I put on them today (before dark clouds appeared on the horizon) , I had both of those CDs out. On the first one that all three tones sounded the same with the B&Ws, with the Revels, the out of phase tone is CLEARLY quieter! What gives? I asked either here or on AA years ago why I was hearing no difference with the B&Ws, and the consensus was don’t worry about it as long as you hear what you are supposed to on Rodger & Doug’s CD.

Okay, I am going to wrap this up because I don’t have the ear that most of you guys have (no sarcasm intended) or the vocabulary. So I don’t always know what it is that I am hearing that makes me like and dislike or thevocabulary to describe. I do know that the test tone (in pase/out of phase) is tangible. I did unhook my sub (hmmm, is it possible that this affected my test tone experiment? I just now thought of that) because I wanted to hear them standing a lone. They could definitely benefit from more bass, and I do plan on listening with the sub, but to my ears they were not absolutely pathetic. They could just use more. They are rear ported versus front ported like the B&Ws are.

What I heard, and with my ears (abused by 28 years of jet engines and shooting rivets and other loud noises) anyone would be entitled to say "confirmation bias," but:

I did say I was looking for an excuse to send them back. However, I also said that relatively shortly after feeding them musical signals, I QUICKLY came to the conclusion that they sounded better than the B&Ws.

So at the risk of using subjective cliches, the clarity (especially on percussion and the high keys of a piano) was much sharper and defined. Voices immediately sounded as if they had more "texture" (if that’s the right cliche) and inflections were more noticeable. I put on the DCC red book L. Ronstadt’s Greatest Hits Volume 2 (because the same tracks sound better than on the MFSL red book Simple Dreams, I like the DCC sound better) and I wanted to hear the opening bass track on Poor Poor Pitiful Me (I definitely like the sub turned UP for that better than no sub), but despite that, her voice is a lot more "interesting" with the Revels than with the old B&Ws. By "interesting", I mean real.

I’ll leave it at that because I am no reviewer. I don’t even pretend to be. If anyone has borne with me this long, however, I am interested in why the in phase/out of phase test tone works with the Revels but not with the B&Ws.

Oh, and associated equipment was a Maranzt SA10 (but I did not use any SACDs for those 4.5 hours) a Cary SLP05, a Cary V12 in 50 wpc triode, I cannot biwire these Revels so I only used one half of my shotgun biwire set up which was the thicker of the two Kimber blue speaker wires, but I don’t remember the numbers, and Kimber balanced (XLR vs RCA is what I mean to say) Silver Streak interconnects. On an edit I will add that the power cord for the SACDp is a newly purchased from Amazon $50 Preffair (if I spelled that correctly) and the amp and preamp still have stock cords, but Amazon tells me that two more Preffair cords will arrive on Tuesday.

I’ll now apologize for any and all typos that I don’t get edited out . . . I was a bad typist when I had two functional eyes, and now I am a REALLY BAD typist. Plus, since it was too early for me to be drinking alcohol when I was listening, I went with coffee, and that also has an effect on my typing.

 

 

immatthewj

@elliottbnewcombjr ,

B-Stock. Hmmm, what I would want to check/know is how well the drivers are matched/balanced, from low frequencies up to high frequencies, midrange the most important. I’d like to know even if they were not B-stock.

I am going to have to carefully read and re-read your informative replay, as well as the link @james633 sent me regarding placement. As I typed, the serial numbers are not numbered close together . . . I am thinking that this is why they are B stock? Because they are not matched? I can see no blems or scuffs on them (that is one of the reasons the MD rep said they might be B Stock). ,The thing is, at their MSRP I was unable to justify them (expensive is a relative term) but at 3k (1400 off of list) they fit into a range that I could feel okay about. There was a price to be paid for retiring as early as I did, and it is me thinking a lot harder before i spend money.

Okay, one of the test CDs I played yesterday had (I think they were called?) "frequency sweeps"? And the narrator said they should be smooth from bottom to top? Is that what you were referring to? To my ears they were smooth. But with that typed, I openly admit to not having the greatest ears in the world, and I had been telling myself for quite a while that those ears were okay with my B&Ws which obviously had a lot of room for improvement.

(Which I also know is relative--as excited as I am now about these Revels, I can only imagine how I would feel about a real high end pair of speakers.)

Congratulations on your purchase. As you know, one shouldn’t draw any conclusions from the first few hours on a new purchase with speakers… but of course, that is human nature. So, congratulations on being human. Just a reminder… the speakers need to be broken in by at least one hundred hours. Let them play all night long. Many folks put them together speaker to speaker pointed at each other to reduce the sound levels.

The sound will improve considerably from break-in but also from positioning. Positioning can take weeks or months after they are broken in. It is something best approached by taking your time. If you do not do it all the time it is best to put long intervals of listening to music (not listening to the speakers) in between… then making a change.

 

You clearly put a lot of effort into research and have made an informed purchase. Sounds like you made a good one. Try and not doubt your decision and enjoy the process. I have never heard of any kind of b-stock that has any functional compromise. Typically it is some virtually invisible cosmetic thing or an excuse to sell perfectly good units at a discount.

 

Enjoy.

@immatthewj - electrical theory is rather simple here. Here is how I usually explain it. Amplifiers are designed assuming that load is pure resistor. But speakers include filters (capacitors and coils) and driver units themselves are coils. And coil moving in magnetic field produces its own current, so worse still, the speaker is an active load (it strikes back!).

Bottom line is that the load is much more complex thing and it is hard to design an amp that is capable of handling all types of loads. So here were are, discussing cables, amps and matching speakers :-)

Like I tried to say, sounds darn good, don’t over-think it, just enjoy.

1st thing, you find the speakers more involving

OH HAPPY DAY!

IF they sound great, nothing get’s your attention except good listening, DONE.

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The whole thing I wrote is only because you keep calling them B-Stock and the serial #s are far apart,

that is why I would be CURIOUS, to find out how well they match each other. No need, just that I’m retired, have the time, spl meter, amazing bytes cd, and tripod ready to go.

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How do you get things matched IF you find some problem(s) exist? (find imbalance with the SPL meter and multi-band test CD with many INDIVIDUALLY selectable frequencies, not a sweep).

I have experience matching my vintage speakers that have L-Pads. It’s easy to get ’adjusters’ of any kind OFF their best setting, It’s hard work to get them frequency balanced, each speaker, and together.

I use the meter and test cd, then I make final adjustments by ear, primarily how far to push the highs? Get out my favorite tracks for this. Eurythmics, Sweet Dreams, Annie Lennox’s voice and Dave Stewart’s trickery; Enough is Enough DUET by Barbra Streisand and Donna Summer; Andreas Vollenweider, White Winds; you know if you find you cannot hear some highs that are there, and also if you have pushed too far.

IF problem(s) exist. I’m having a professional hearing test on Wednesday. I’m 75, I am sure they will find something (if only age-related diminished high frequencies).

In anticipation, I bought a dual channel 31 band (1/3 octave) equalizer. So far, in-line set to ’0’, i.e. flat, I and a few friends cannot tell it’s in-line. Dead quiet.

It has detents at ’0’, that’s important. A taller unit’s sliders have longer movements up and down for greater accuracy.

DBX 2231 Equalizer Clone

Totally identical to DBX inside and out, same printed circuit boards, transformers, jacks and positions, in/out options .....

I chose this one because it is already in the USA, and from Amazon, easy free return.

Whatever they find, I thought I would try an inverse curve, curious as to what I hear here. Hearing AIDs, have limited adjustability, if I find out I ought to get/try them, they would be for everything except listening to music, the equalizer doing a more refined adjustment.

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Equalizers have IN or OUT switches, so you can hear the difference for yourself, ask friends who visit what they hear, turn it off for listening with others, perhaps with hearing aids in, .....