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ultrasound record cleaning machine damaged my records

I recently purchased an ultrasound record cleaning machine. For reasons which I hope you understand I won’t name brands, because I am not wanting to make bad publicity to anyone but to discuss the matter. 

Previously, I had anather ultrasound machine which broke. I cleaned more than a 1000 records with it, with no concerns at all. The machine broke and, due to its steep price, I decided to go for a less costly solution. 

With the new machine I cleaned 7 records. One of themLeonard Cohen’s “New Skin for the old ceremony”. When listening to “Chelsea Hote”, I remarked a distortion that wasn’t there before. IT was clear on the low notes, like the instrument being out of focus or vibrating. I had some old very worn records which had that problem due to bad stylus. At first I started to think that there was a problem with the stylus of my Lyra Atlas. So I went to another version of the same album I have at home, to check if there was a problem with the stylus. Clean passage. No problem at all. 

As on the previous cleaned record I noticed a similar problem, not so apparent, I decided to clean the second version of the LP on the new machine. Playing it i heard  the same distortion on the same music. Checking out all the 7 records I cleaned, I heard issues on all of them, some less apparent ( the mono ones) and some more appparent. 

I couldn’t believe it but the new machine was damaging my records. 

The combination of my atlas and my SME 312 arm gives some “needle talk” - music heard when with everything muted you put your hear next to the stylus on the record. Doing it, I heard the same rumble distortion that was being amplified by the system. 

 

I used distilled water (not a new one but one which was opened for the previous machine) but it was clear clean. I put the exact amount of surfactant liquid on the mixture of distilled water. I kept all the operating instruction rules. I don’t understand what is wrong, but the fact is this machines damages the grooves on the record. 

 

Does anyone had this problem before? Any help provided?

 

Note: I already contacted the dealer who sold it  and I am going to see him next week. It is a very good a solid dealer.  It I’d like to hear your opinion. 

 

Best regards,

128x128pfmaudio
terry9
2,333 posts
 

I use an Elmasonic, 5000 records cleaned, no issues. Antinn's response sounds right, and based on who he is, is almost certainly right.

Good luck with everything.

michaellent's avatar
michaellent
193 posts
 

HumminGuru Very Highly recommends that you do not use any Surfactant.  100% distilled water only. Just sayin’…

Bent

pfmaudio's avatar
pfmaudio OP
19 posts
 

Thank you all for your contribution. 
 

Thank you Antinn for your suggestion. I cleaned the record again with distilled water only. But the problem keeps there. I believe the grooves are damaged for good. Regarding your suggestion that an existing detritus got removed and showed the problem, all my 12” records were cleaned at least once, more than a year ago, with my late,Audio Desk machine, which broke the pump. It is very unlikely that some detritus was there, IMHO. 
 

but I made further actions following your advice. I decided to clean another record (old and with a new spare copy) with the distilled water ONLY. After a listening, I didn’t hear anything remarkable. Then, I put again on the tank the old mixture of water and cleaning solution (which I kept on a bottle for my dealer analysis). Listening  again, the problem WAS THERE. It seems the problem is on the mixture. I remember when putting in the 3 drops, the last one might have been doubled. However, if one drop has this effect, it is concerning. 
As the distilled water was old ( more than a year not sealed but closed with its cap) perhaps the problem is there, although a doubt. 
 

I will do another experiment with the old bottle of distilled only and let you know. 
 

Regarding some comments of not disclosing the OEM, I do think when someone puts an atomic bomb opinion on a forum like this it might be very damaging for the particular OEM, so I like to be prudent and respect other people efforts and investment in their products. At least until I spoke with them and get proper customer care. 
 

My old machine was an Audio Desk, which had a pump problem and is impossible to repair because the machine is sealed. Audio Desk offers a new one for half price with return of the original unit. However, it still gets expensive, with no assurance that the e pump won’t break again in the next years. With the audio desk I never had my problem at all I cleaned more than 1000 récords. 
 

the new machie Brand was añready guessed by some of The members, but please dont jump with conclusions. I Will keep you informed of further progress regardisns the distilled water or The “overdose” ou cleaning surfactant. 

lewm
13,045 posts
 

Cleeds, I drive a well known German automobile. Can you name it with any certainty? No. 
 

I would have guessed that US might damage an LP by affecting high treble frequencies first, since those are encoded by the most tortuous grooves. So I’m a little surprised at this report. Also 40 kHz and 60W do not seem excessive. So I’m wondering whether his generator is out of whack, delivering higher energy than rated. Or whether this is a red herring.
 

 

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

I make no secret of the Label I now give my manually cleaned records using the PAVCR Manual Cleaning Method, as being Purified as the end product after the cleaning process.

I attribute 90%+ to this end result as being the Mixture for a Cleaning Solution that Neil Antin carefully calculates.

In posts in other threads, I have made it known I bought in extra ancillaries to enable myself to produce the Solutions to be used to a very accurate ratio for the mixture.

The mixture ratio for the cleaning solution are critical, the tools are aids to optimise the impact of the solution on the material being cleaned.

The following can be challenged quite outwardly with rebuttal. 

How many US Tanks have been filled / are filled / to be filled, with Solutions that are with ratio's for the mixture of the Cleaning Solution, that does not enable the Solution to perform to the necessary requirements ?

It does seem Cavitation used for Cleaning is optimised when manifesting in a particular solution?

It does seem Cavitation manifesting in a non-optimised solution, does not have the cleaning capability to effectively stop cleaning solution residual forming in the LP Groove, to the point the presence of the residual is audible?   

   

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