ultrasound record cleaning machine damaged my records


I recently purchased an ultrasound record cleaning machine. For reasons which I hope you understand I won’t name brands, because I am not wanting to make bad publicity to anyone but to discuss the matter. 

Previously, I had anather ultrasound machine which broke. I cleaned more than a 1000 records with it, with no concerns at all. The machine broke and, due to its steep price, I decided to go for a less costly solution. 

With the new machine I cleaned 7 records. One of themLeonard Cohen’s “New Skin for the old ceremony”. When listening to “Chelsea Hote”, I remarked a distortion that wasn’t there before. IT was clear on the low notes, like the instrument being out of focus or vibrating. I had some old very worn records which had that problem due to bad stylus. At first I started to think that there was a problem with the stylus of my Lyra Atlas. So I went to another version of the same album I have at home, to check if there was a problem with the stylus. Clean passage. No problem at all. 

As on the previous cleaned record I noticed a similar problem, not so apparent, I decided to clean the second version of the LP on the new machine. Playing it i heard  the same distortion on the same music. Checking out all the 7 records I cleaned, I heard issues on all of them, some less apparent ( the mono ones) and some more appparent. 

I couldn’t believe it but the new machine was damaging my records. 

The combination of my atlas and my SME 312 arm gives some “needle talk” - music heard when with everything muted you put your hear next to the stylus on the record. Doing it, I heard the same rumble distortion that was being amplified by the system. 

 

I used distilled water (not a new one but one which was opened for the previous machine) but it was clear clean. I put the exact amount of surfactant liquid on the mixture of distilled water. I kept all the operating instruction rules. I don’t understand what is wrong, but the fact is this machines damages the grooves on the record. 

 

Does anyone had this problem before? Any help provided?

 

Note: I already contacted the dealer who sold it  and I am going to see him next week. It is a very good a solid dealer.  It I’d like to hear your opinion. 

 

Best regards,

128x128pfmaudio

@pfmaudio 

Do you think doubling the drying time can help to remove the eventual residue?

Drying longer is not going to reduce/remove the residue.  Nonionic surfactant in their 100% state is often like thin oils and are essentially non-volatile.  When the volatile water evaporates/dries, what is left behind are the non-volatile ingredients of the cleaner.  If the cleaner only contains a simple nonionic surfactant, it will be a viscous type of thin oil that is generally easily removed (water soluble) with a water rinse.  HOWEVER, if there are any inorganic salts in the ingredients, they do not dissolve back into water.  Think about hard water stains - they will not redissolve into water.  You need an acid which is why you use Distilled White Vinegar to clean your coffee maker.  The acid can dissolve the hard water (mineral salts) deposits.  

This whole issue with reside remaining after the water (or solvent) evaporates/dries is what the industry terms "non-volatile residue" NVR.

@antinn Thank You for the supplied information.

Polysorbate 20 is much easier to source in smaller volume, hence much cheaper as a purchase than the cost for BASF™ Dehypon® LS 54.

Options on Costings and Chemical for a Part to be used in a mixture to produce a Solution for the cleaning process, is now improved for the UK and EU individuals that express an interest in such practices..  

@pindac Thank you for posting a link to Neil Antin‘s magnum opus.
@antinn Thank you for responding to clarify specific questions with citations to your book.

Generally speaking, this is a very very confusing topic for beginners such as myself, getting back into vinyl in a serious fashion. I found the organization of Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records, 3rd Edition quite well laid out, easy to read, and well illustrated. What’s more, it cites materials for not only the United States, but Europe, the United Kingdom, as well as Australia. In five chapters it describes the process recommended as a starting-off point, with the what’s and why’s of each step. It’s strongest point, I think, is that it doesn’t hold up one ingredient or the other as a silver bullet, or mandate specific ‘hard rules’ so much as (1) describe the task, (2) list materials, (3) describe precisely how and why procedure is given the way it is, (4) offers ways to check effectiveness. Finally, it is very well documented. Anyone seeking to clean their records would benefit from reading it, in my opinion. It was worth the morning I spent doing so.

Note: Chapter 6 discusses keeping your records clean, and Chapters 7 through 15 delve deeper into the component parts of the cleaning process, starting with the water, and finish examining the method and effectiveness of record cleaning machines, both vacuum and ultrasonic. Appendix B consists of a helpful List of Abbreviations and Acronyms (don’t you wish everyone did).

For my part, I washed my old records by hand with warm water and Fels Naptha Soap and dried them with a cotton towel. [Hey! The process was aqueous, wasn’t it?] Play improved on all but the worst ones. I’ve purchased a Spin Clean, but have yet to use it. I’m thinking I’ll print out chapters 1-6 and start building my kit before I start in on my collection of about 200 LPs and 750 45 RPM records.

@pfmaudio I hope you are able to get some satisfaction from the dealer, and hopefully recover whatever was lost on your recordings. I can certainly understand your reticence to make any more sacrifices for ‘science’ or other’s satisfaction. 

@oldrooney I have built a kit around the Manual Cleaning Method described using UK Sourced Substances to be used as a mixture to produce the cleaning solutions.

I also bought into a 2.5Litre Pressurised Gardner Spray Bottle, with adjustable nozzle from jet to fine mist. This is excellent for wetting and Power Rinsing.

For the Mixtures produced to be Cleaning Solutions, I bought from Amazon multi Pack Spray Bottles approx' 0.5 Litre with adjustable nozzle from Mist to jet. 

I have a Batch of Baby Scalp Brushes, colour coded to prevent cross contamination, each Brush has it own shallow rinse bowl.

I have Super Absorbent Sponge for First Dry and the Micro Cloth for the final dry.

New Sleeves are a must once cleaning is complete.

When I get fired up to clean, I protect an area with News Paper to catch the over spray.

Clean over the News Paper, but keep the Albums off the News Paper.

I can do 10 Albums in an Hour and the first 2 or 3 Albums are dry enough to play when the cleaning session is over and evidence of it having happened are cleaned up.

After the first Album is Played, if played immediately, all Albums can follow being played if wanted.

@oldrooney,

Thank you for the compliment but let us not forget the contribution of @whart who generously stepped in as Editor and Publisher making the book available for free via his site -  Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press and arranging that any time the book is downloaded, it's always the latest version.  

And let me reiterate the premise of the book as stated in the Forward - 

All cleaning procedures specified herein are presented as only “a” way to clean a record. No claim is made there is only one way to approach the process. In the final analysis, the best cleaning process is the one that is best for you.

Good luck,

Neil

PS/For those in the UK & EU, Chapter II Table II EU/UK Manual Record Cleaning Process Material Substitution List, the Tonar™ Plasticgoat Natural Goat Hair Wet Record Cleaning Brush may not be suitable.  The design the book links - Tonar Plastigoat Natural Goats Hair Wet Record Cleaning Brush - SCOTT NANGLE AUDIO (snvinyl.co.uk) may not be the design being sold - Tonar Plastigoat Brush - HIFI MEDIA which has very short brushes and one user in Switzerland recently reported unsatisfactory (and may leave residue).  The preferred Stasis brush (same as the Record Doctor brush) is available in the EU - Stasis Plattenbürste - Rockers Records.