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Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews

I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires
ricevs
1,543 posts
 

Happiness does not have to be earned. It is who we are. We are naturally happy when we stop mind fuc.... ourselves. It is all in our beief systems. Change your beliefs and change your life. If your parents held you as eternal love and bliss then you would be happy all the time. Your parents thought they were "humans" and somewhat flawed and non deserving. They then passed their "attitudes" and perspective on to you. This is what the whole earth experience is for. We get programmed to think we are less than infinite and we slowly remember our divinity.....the fact that we we were and are...always whole and complete.

You do not have to vary in emotional waves with the circumstances of life. You can feel any way you want to.....regardless of the situation. You can sit at a standstill in your car because they are working on the road....or there is an accident and you can either moan and bitch or you can sing and dance. It is up to you. You can celebrate loosing a close super bowl.....you can dance in ecstacy when you loose. What, you say? We are addicted to our emotions. We think we have to go up and down and feel good when things go "right" and feel bad when things go "wrong"......There is NO WRONG......there is just the WAY IT IS in this moment. So, enlightenment is just digging this very moment....no matter what it presents. Easy to talk about and takes an eternity to embody. So simple....yet, so hard.

That is why it is called spiritual practice. You don’t get good at something by doing it once in a while. You eventually realize that every moment is a test.....to see how loving and accepting of this moment you are. And you see......you really have no choice.....he he. You programmed this entire life as a test. You can pass the tests or not. You can celebrate your growth or bemoan your life. You will walk down the hall.....but how you walk down the hall is up to you. You can hit your head on the walls or dance and sing and skip along. That is what spiritual practice is. The practice of enjoyment. The more you practice then the more you experience it.....no matter what the circumstance.

Eventually, you don’t get up in the morning and think "I need to do my spiritual practice".........for the practice has become embodied......you are now living the truth....moment to moment. We have all experienced moments that transcend time and space.....that are truly miraculous. I have been with a few people who live in the eternal miracle.....every moment. It is a blessing just to be with them and feel that extremely high vibration......the vibration of our true nature......eternal, infinite love and joy.

nonoise's avatar
nonoise
10,823 posts
 

If I could sum that all up.....

 

All the best,
Nonoise

amir_asr
777 posts
 

Erin defended himself as "monetization" links were added by others posting Erin's reviews - a situation beyond his control.  

That's false.  From start, Erin was pleading with ASR members for donations and repeatedly so.  That link for donation remains even today.  If he had post that here, he would have been banned immediately.  Ditto for any other forum.  Yet we gave him room to grow until such pleadings got too much so he was banned.  When he went through his painful divorce, almost two years ago, I removed the ban so he could interact with the membership and that continues to this day.

We probably have two dozen industry reviewers on ASR.  None have posted reviews asking for donations on ASR.  This is the level of conduct that is expected and implicitly understood.

Above should clearly demonstrate that any accusations of competition, or bad intentions on my part is patently false.  

Why would violation of a core principle of the ASR code of conduct be allowed to continue for so long? 

Again, forums like this would have disallowed such monetized links but we have chosen to allow members to link to other reviews even if they are monetized.  The line is drawn however at self promotion.

Appears to be selective rule enforcement to support another agenda.  Half truths and a lack of full transparency are not the hallmarks of an honest broker.

What you are posting is at a minimum uninformed and at worst, the half-truth you complain about.

texbychoice
125 posts
 

That link for donation remains even today.

A rules violation, yet Erin is not banned currently.

Again, forums like this would have disallowed such monetized links but we have chosen to allow members to link to other reviews even if they are monetized.  The line is drawn however at self promotion.

You are so generous to allow long term rules violations to allow growth.  As noted, selective rules enforcement.  And of course your response to this situation is constructed to paint you in the best possible light.  Must be exhausting talking out of both sides of your mouth.

laoman's avatar
laoman
435 posts
 

" I removed the ban "
So you lied, Amir. You did ban him. The fact that you re instated his membership later is irrelevant. By the way, it was not your idea to support Erin regrading the recent review; some of your minions suggested it and you jumped on board.

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